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I keep getting these surveys from the TRADOC Analysis Center wanting to know how I "feel" about Females joining combat arms positions, and jobs currently closed to them. Not so sure I believe the Army really cares how I "feel" about the topic and not sure it matters.
This has been an ongoing debate in a couple units I have been in and I'd like to hear something other than: "that's a ridiculous idea", "If they can hack it, let them" and "the sexual harassment/assault rate will go up". I'd like to hear from other branches and females as well.
So, tell me, what's your take on it?
Note: Image added by RP Staff
This has been an ongoing debate in a couple units I have been in and I'd like to hear something other than: "that's a ridiculous idea", "If they can hack it, let them" and "the sexual harassment/assault rate will go up". I'd like to hear from other branches and females as well.
So, tell me, what's your take on it?
Note: Image added by RP Staff
Combat Arms
Women in the Military
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 86
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I agree that if they can handle the rigors of the job let them go. But we have a problem with sexual harassment/assault that we need to get a handle on first before we try to implement this.
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SPC (Join to see) If they are physically able to pick up, drag, carry to safety their left or right and are able to sustain themselves in the field, it's worth a try. Check out the feamel Kurdish fighters.
One of the risks is getting male soldiers to overcome the instinctive will to come to a female's aid when anything goes wrong. Right or wrong it's a reality and would need to be addressed in training.
One of the risks is getting male soldiers to overcome the instinctive will to come to a female's aid when anything goes wrong. Right or wrong it's a reality and would need to be addressed in training.
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My two cents, there are women out there that can perform physically in the Infantry, probably better than some of the men doing the job. However as stated already no gender standards etc. However ponder this scenario. You're at a Platoon/Company sized FOB/COP. There are a handful of females in your Platoon. For arguments sake lets say that Female Soldier A is dating Male Soldier B in either thier Platoon and they have a falling out. Female Soldier A starts dating Male Soldier C in same Platoon. How do you think this is going to play out for the cohesiveness of the unit?
I understand that this won't be a problem with every Female in the Infantry, but in my experience if it can happen, it will happen. You can counsel, give Female Soldiers Battle Buddies, give them Orders from the PL etc. However Soldiers are going to do what the hell they want at the end of the day because lets face it, they feel that they will be the ONE out of all to not get caught doing something they're not supposed to.
I understand that this won't be a problem with every Female in the Infantry, but in my experience if it can happen, it will happen. You can counsel, give Female Soldiers Battle Buddies, give them Orders from the PL etc. However Soldiers are going to do what the hell they want at the end of the day because lets face it, they feel that they will be the ONE out of all to not get caught doing something they're not supposed to.
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I don't care what gender a Soldier is so long as they can do their job. If a woman is capable of meeting the standards for an MOS, they should be allowed into it. I know plenty of women who would have been great infantry(persons?), but weren't allowed to because of their gender. For us, it's a cultural thing... it needs to die though, women should register for the Selective Service just like men have to do and they should be afforded the same opportunities men have. Plain and simple.
Here's a question: What is one job a man can do that a woman can't?
My only answer is King.... but a Queen is the equivalent so that doesn't work...
Here's a question: What is one job a man can do that a woman can't?
My only answer is King.... but a Queen is the equivalent so that doesn't work...
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being a former artilleryman, I understand why people are upset of the idea. Think about this: while out in the field, the females are going to need an secluded area to change, won't they?
I personally don't care one way or the other. I have seen female MP's role out the gate during deployment and there was no problem. I have seen a female in that unit probably 5'5" or shorter weighing a little over 100 lbs man-handle a fully assembled (barrel and all) .50 M2 into the back of a MaxxPro by herself like it was a Barretta M9 (spelling?) all the way up to the top. But at the same time, I have seen cases of women having affairs all over the place. It really comes down to being one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of deals.
I personally don't care one way or the other. I have seen female MP's role out the gate during deployment and there was no problem. I have seen a female in that unit probably 5'5" or shorter weighing a little over 100 lbs man-handle a fully assembled (barrel and all) .50 M2 into the back of a MaxxPro by herself like it was a Barretta M9 (spelling?) all the way up to the top. But at the same time, I have seen cases of women having affairs all over the place. It really comes down to being one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of deals.
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This is a great topic SFC Watson. I had a unique job while in the military, I was a Chaplain Assistant, I say unique because I deployed with a Combat Engineer unit and the guys would allow me to do Route Clearance missions with them. I know combat and I know how to survive it. I was taught a lot while out with them but I will tell you its not something I would want to do as a MOS. Do i think females should be allowed to be 11B? Yes and no....if they can handle it i think they should be allowed to. I think it raises a big question of safety. When in contact my guys tended to gravitate toward me, HAHA I thought it was because I was a good shot :) but i think it was more for my safety, was it cause I was a Chaplain Assistant or a female? Not sure.
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what i think goes along with what you think if they can hack it let them in. the sexual harassment/assault it may go up but it takes a bigger man or woman to address the situation than it does to ignore.
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Yes I have seen a lot of tough females in my 18 years in the Army, most of them hard charging , Medics that had 300 plus pt a Scores. And I have seen a lot of worthless men too. So I do believe that women can make cut just as men can.
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Honestly, it doesn't matter and is just for publicity. The real test comes in the operational Army.
tl;dr - Passing a male APFT at 60/60/60 or better, shooting 23/40 or better, and meeting all other MOS-Q standards does not a successful infantryman/woman make.
tl;dr - Passing a male APFT at 60/60/60 or better, shooting 23/40 or better, and meeting all other MOS-Q standards does not a successful infantryman/woman make.
AIT/OSUT doesn't count: I don't think that anyone honestly questions if -any- women can meet the MOS-Q requirements for the infantry. Even the USMC pullup standard of 3 or better is within the realm of the possible. The institutional standard for qualifying in any of the combat arms branches is achievable for the average male that meets recruitment criteria and so it can be reasonably assumed that some of the women who meet recruitment criteria can meet that standard as well.
The female Marines who went through SOI were then sent to further training and will serve in something other than an infantry position. Why? Because the actual, operational military doesn't currently have an active plan for coed combat arms units.
The actual test of females in combat arms will occur once we are enlisting them from the general population in large numbers and are utilizing them in the regular units they'd be assigned to. The question of physical & psychological performance, cultural integration, and operational readiness as it relates to a coed environment and women in specific will be answered outside of a controlled institutional environment.
The female Marines who went through SOI were then sent to further training and will serve in something other than an infantry position. Why? Because the actual, operational military doesn't currently have an active plan for coed combat arms units.
The actual test of females in combat arms will occur once we are enlisting them from the general population in large numbers and are utilizing them in the regular units they'd be assigned to. The question of physical & psychological performance, cultural integration, and operational readiness as it relates to a coed environment and women in specific will be answered outside of a controlled institutional environment.
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I think this is a good thread for those we are trying to get to join can see the substance of some things we discuss between us as current and former military, soft spoken as well as informational and mentoring types of postings.
We also have fun at times while remaining professional.
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