Posted on Nov 17, 2014
SFC Battalion Air Nco
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Women carrying in combat arms
I whole heartedly believe that if a person can make it through a program, they deserve to be there. I do not believe that the standards for that program should be changed to accommodate anyone though. If someone were to enter my MOS, all I care about is that they can drag me, or my battles, if we were to get hit. With that all being said, if women were to be allowed into the combat arms MOS', would women across the United States, ages 18-35, be required to sign up for selective service as well? If we're going to get rid of the gender separation in our military, we need to get rid of it altogether.

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CMSgt Senior Enlisted Leader
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I am so grateful for this tasteful discussion on the subject matter. Similar topics broached on FB (via Stolen Valor) have spawned comments that make me want to throat punch. Lol

On the topic, I do not think that the standards should be watered down for anyone in any way. If an individual can pass the already established criteria needed, then press on smartly. One knows (theoretically) what they are getting into and those incredible challenges are difficult for anyone. That is why they are SPECIAL Forces, not "Mediocre Forces". No whining, no b*tching. Get it done and your team will respect it.

I have an incredible respect for tab-wearers. Personally, I have no desire to try nor could I imagine doing it. There are some that will try and fail miserably--male and female. Good luck and Godspeed to all. :)
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1SG First Sergeant
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SFC Michael Garner -
SFC,
When we as an army start making decisions based on K9s and Soldier body odor in the field is when the Army will be at a total failure as an effective fighting force.
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1SG First Sergeant
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LTC Richard Cooper -
Sir,
Two women have successfully completed Ranger school with equal standards and all leaders fail at some point.
The war in Iraq proved this and we as an Army took a huge amount of casualties as well, both men and women.
Food for thought Sir.
RLTW!
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SFC Michael Garner
SFC Michael Garner
>1 y
It is not body oder it is as in a arm pit or nasty ass it is about what would atract the nose of a male k9, but i guess in this pc world you have no concept of a comprimised position outside the wire
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1SG First Sergeant
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SFC Michael Garner -
SFC,
In what video game world are you operating in? On the off chance that a Special Missions Unit is behind enemy lines and conducting reconnaissance and then a male K9 strolls by and a female Soldier on that team just so happens to be on her monthly cycle and compromises the entire mission causing a chain reaction of death, at that point I would say you were luckily correct.

SFC your point just like the run on sentence above is ridiculous!

Last this is what I tell Soldiers who refuse change, especially when the Army is pushing it:
The Army is a volunteer force, you can always un-volunteer.
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CPT Company Commander
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Edited >1 y ago
I always find this a troubling debate. It rears it's head here so often. I am not going to say some happy line like "if they can then why not." It isn't that simple. Life never is. I am not really on a side but I side with the facts.

1. Women are not physically endowed as men. Yes, I said it. It is just the way it is. Please don't complain to me as I didn't make it that way. This is why there are different scales for every services PT test. Some tasks are more suited to a male soldier than a female. You need not look further than the Marines Infantry Officer Course. Out of 27 females not one has made it past the ruck. It is not about meeting the bare minimal standard but we should only take the best in our combat leadership positions. If one makes it I will have no issue. Males even fail out there. If they can't handle it they shouldn't be there either. It doesn't make you any less honorable to serve in another capacity. I am just thinking of the combat load of a 11B M240 gunner with rounds or a 11C with a 81mm mortar base plate.

2. There is a culture of unity that will be changed in the combat arms. To be honest if they say that women will be in the infantry they will have to deal with it but there will be some time till they are accepted. If they are not able to perform on the same levels as a male soldier, reason #1, they may never be accepted. You would pretty much put women in isolated locations with a group of soldiers for long duration of time. I would be concerned about her mental welfare in that environment.

I understand the accommodation part of this. The question I have is accommodating a group of soldiers impacting the overall readiness of a unit? If not, fine. I don't even know what other issues would arise. This is something that we can't say just say "Sure" and that equal rights must prevail. It isn't that simple. I have a daughter. I would want nothing more than for her to be the first Airborne Ranger in the Army but It would put some huge demands on any female soldier. I think the Army is looking into it and will do a fair analysis of the situation. We will see how this turns out.
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SGT Infantryman
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Not to mention there would be literally no NCOs that could punish them without fear of an EO complaint
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CPT Company Commander
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I don't think that would be an issue. I think too many fear females. If you just do what is right there isn't anything that they can do. Females are already in units and these are issues we already face. SGT (Join to see)
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1SG David Lopez
1SG David Lopez
>1 y
great argument, there are several additional reasons / arguments as to why this will be an extreme change in the Infantry / Ranger / SF Units. The list can go on and on....
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SFC George Ashford
SFC George Ashford
7 y
So many countries have women in combat arms If they make it through the requirements without watering them down then go for it. If it's for pc then he'll no.
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Sgt Sherry Taylor-Bruce
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I want to respond to the selective service portion first. At 21 I enlisted in the Air Force and met all the qualifications of my job in the supply sq. I worked in various areas of the warehouse and docks. When items were too big and heavy I picked them up with a fork lift. I see nothing wrong with extending equality to women by requiring them to sign up for selective service. I also think a mandatory time in the armed service like Israel would be good for our young men AND women.

As for women in combat roles I believe that should be voluntary for those physically and mentality qualified. The ones that can't make it get cross-trained into another field.
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Sgt Sherry Taylor-Bruce
Sgt Sherry Taylor-Bruce
10 y
Sorry SSG Michael LoGiudice I don't have a son, only daughters that I had while on active duty. Don't worry I didn't get out of any deployments because there weren't any back then. My oldest daughter did very well in Sr ROTC until she was medically disqualified due to scoliosis. She finished school with a Masters degree and currently has hazardous duty as a school teacher in the Atlanta school system.

The other daughter is currently paying her dues as a bartender/ server also in Atlanta.

As for me I took Army ROTC in high school so I didn't have to take Phys Ed because I'm rather uncoordinated. I actually liked it and stuck with it. I preferred the AirForce to the Army for a career though. I'm afraid your assessment of my physical abilities was off the mark. GI Jane I wasn't but I am quite proud to be a Pink Warrior and survivor of Breast Cancer.

I am a peace Time Veteran however I faced a battle and won over an enemy named Cancer. I am not brave, I am weak but HE is strong. Maybe this is why I'm a bit gung Ho because God has my back...
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LtCol Andrew Horne
LtCol Andrew Horne
>1 y
Sgt, regarding your comments that combat mos should be voluntary for women, i think that sends the wrong message. Its not voluntary for men to go or not go into a combat mos. If the combat roles are open to women they should be assigned based on the needs of the service. Like one of the other commentators mentioned there are plenty of men that can't face the physical rigors of combat or combat training and their careers are cut short the same will happen to women. And in fairness it should.
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SFC Operations Sergeant
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So, women have a choice to serve there but the male doesn't have a choice when it comes to serving in a combat role or serving with the likely less-capable female who asked to "get" to do it. Seems pretty equal to me.
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SFC Operations Sergeant
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I don't think I understand your point, or what you are responding to.
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