Worst Feeling? Explaining to a Soldier why the COC felt the need to deny their award.

Juat one problem with that.. Politics will get involved and demand names or push people through with special marks/notations on the award letter margins and it would still get abused. That, and politics would control the board. Just like everything else. The real problem is politics and greed. Eliminate those and things will improve because people will gain top military ranks based on soldier skill and merit vs. Political in roads. Its really that simple im affraid.
Read the award prerequisites for the army silver star vs. The army medal of honor. That should tell you everything you need to know. So many MOH deservind soldiers have silver stars because politics didnt want to use them as a promotional advertisement.

CSM Mike Maynard And yet, in almost any unit in the Army, the Specialist is less likely to get the award, or more likely to get it downgraded because commands, in direct violation of regs, attach rank requirements to awards.

One central submission point. Just a DOD ID number to identify the individual - no name or rank. No stupid submission timelines of 120+ days prior to presentation date.

I like how you think, SSG Robert Burns !

SSG (Join to see) - When questions over a retirement award arose in my time, I suggested an AAM and told to the CSM to go parade himself, having endured the screaming idiot far too long already. The same son-of-a-bitch who had an MSM stuck on him for duty performed by a subordinate.

Try explaining the back side of a 638 why an award was downgraded at company level.

That’s the whole point when you put someone’s name in don’t say anything until it’s been approved!

CSM Mike Maynard Yet you let it happen all the time when you were CSM of 1-1. You kicked back several awards for medics because they weren’t E-5s so they didn’t deserve the ARCOM they got recommended for.

That's not true CPL Luke Ediger - it never had anything to do with rank. It was always that whoever wrote it up, did not write ARCOM-level bullets, and yes, I did kick them back, to give them the opportunity to re-write if they believed that the Soldier had ARCOM-level performance. AAMs were for those exceeding expectations, ARCOMs were for those far exceeding expectations.

I resemble that remark except that I’ve heard the threshold in the Marines wa Master Sergeant. I was a Hunny nominated and it got downgraded. I also agree that the awardee should not be told because it always has a risk of being downgraded.

“Fair”, fair is a ball hit between 1st and 3rd. It’s got nothing to do with Awards. If the policy says E7 and above..... well, kind of speaks for itself... I hope your MSM was downgraded to the appropriate rank and approved!

Yep-Same here... Air Force decorations reg. doesn't specify a grade restriction for MSM, but because I was an E6 at the time, I wasn't even considered. Had to accept an AFCM for 30 year's service.

Same here. 4 of us Put in for MSM's. The E6's got the award, the 2 E5's were downgraded to ArCom....

And that's  the inevitable end result I hate to see.. little things like that leading to a Soldier/Marine deciding to leave the service...

I never had a negative opinion of anything military related other than that specific Warrant Officer. I think at least some level of acknowledgement of a service member's efforts should be recognized and if someone on the chain decides to deny or downgrade the award, some degree of tact needs to be used. It isn't supposed to be a negative, but some how taking out some measure of tact and consideration of the award nominee needs to be made when expressing and explaining the decison. I would have probably taken things better had my Warrant Officer kept his mouth shut, but he may have been a decent tech, but his leadership and interpersonal skils were lacking.

Napoleon has been quoted as saying "A man will go that extra distance for a little piece of ribbon." I probably misquoted that, but the same thing still rings true today. Personally I tried not to say anything until I had it actually in hand (preferred for the CO to just surprise the troop when they were called up to receive the award)

Praise for a job well done is a prime motivator

Perhaps its time to extend the V device to include AAM's as well ? Or at least allow them in theater to grant more award options in theater.

I know medics who got shot at put in for the Silver Star. The award was denied because the Command felt that the Medic was simply doing his job. He had a ambulance blown up from under him! walked away from it. got his patients out of the Ambulance treated them and the others injured by the blast.

Every time I hear IG and awards used in the same conversation, the retort I always hear is " we don't OWE you an award at all, if you receive any award, you should be grateful".

CSM Maynard, 

That's a shame, I'm willing to bet that was an otherwise very rewarding special duty assignment... Shame to end it that way..

Politics is one thing I will never understand in this world.  I hate reading about someone who deserved more, but didnt get it because of "Politics"

Sir,
I fully agree with you on most points namely the performance-responsibility portion. The issue I have with the current system/your post is that the rank-experience should also be taken into account. If a high speed SPC takes over for a CW2 position due to a series of unfortunate events, and that position traditionally earns MSMs or ARCOMs. It would seem unfair for the Soldier to assume all roles and responsabilities for 6 months of a 1 year tour and not recieve more than an AAM. This junior Soldier most likely went and worked his butt off to accomplish the mission. I have seen this happen exactly as written in one situation and have also seen a SGT take over for a MSG 3 times with the same result. I think that the system is flawed but can be fixed through the following:
-If a SPC/SGT or undeserving rank is being recomended for an MSM that the recommender should be asked to come brief you and the CSM.
-I also think that strict enforcement on the CoC to send awards through the appropriate channels for the originally recomended award even if they recomend to downgrade the award.
-An open mind to the situation.

I am happy to elaborate on anything further but have seen stellar Soldiers give their everything, receive outstanding counselings from COLs and LTCs in charge of their section, and still feel like they underperformed because of a downgraded award.
-SGT A

SSG (Join to see) - Agree with the points you outline. I often let the recommender tell me why the Soldier deserves the award if it is not obvious in the writeup. Many times, their reasoning is sound, but they didn't put that all into words on the document. They revise and then I approve. Secondly, the CoC is REQUIRED to pass the award along to the level that can deny it. Failure to do so is a good way to get an IG complaint. For example, I could get a request for a Medal of Honor and all I am allowed to do is recommend downgrade or disapproval and it still has to go all the way to the SECDEF to determine a final answer. Lastly, don't tie your level of performance to the award you receive. Often these are not on par. Battalion Commanders are always going to get an MSM for command whether they did a great job or just OK. The important thing is what is reflected on your eval - that's what is going to get you promoted - not a piece of cloth on your ASUs.

BG (Join to see) Thank you. I appreciate your response and insite Sir.

Background: I was a BN S1 in Iraq and dealt with the end of tour awards first hand.

As an S1, I can tell you there was no % for different levels of awards that would be approved. I can tell you that while a Soldier may think they did something MSM/BSM worthy, a Soldier (specifically Jr. Soldiers) level of influence is significantly different based on the level of Command they serve at.

We had 4 companies in the BN I deployed with. an HHC and 3 lines. The line companies had platoons/teams under them while HHC was staff (typical Bn makeup). When it came time for EOT awards submissions my staff noticed that there was a really high number of BSM/MSM requests coming up from the Companies. We reviewed them and send them to the BN Command team as requested. Our BC saw the same and asked the Company commanders why the awards were written up at the levels they were.

What we found was that the Team leaders (SFC/1LT's) decided that since they ran teams and didn't screw anything up then that was BSM worthy. They were putting in almost every Soldier on their team for a BSM (effectively negating the value of that award). They didn't want to downgrade them so the BC recommended a downgrade and sent them forward. All of those got downgraded at the approval authority!

The Company Command teams (CDR/1SG) got BSM's, but their level of responsibility warranted it). The BN CDR, CSM and XO got BSM's, again, based on level of responsibility and the majority of staff primaries received MSM's. We had a few Company XO's complain due to the Staff OIC's (1LT's) getting MSM's and they (also 1LT's) received ARCOMS. What they couldn't see was that they set themselves up for failure. A BSM CANNOT be downgraded to an MSM, they have to be downgraded to an ARCOM. If they had just written the award as an MSM they likely would have gotten it! We also had 2 MAJ's complain that they only received ARCOM's, again, it was based on their level of responsibility.

All said, we gave approximately 400 EOT awards, the majority of which were ARCOM's. We had a handful of BSM's and MSM's and a slither of AAM's.

I'd be hard pressed to disagree with anything you've said...