Posted on Dec 28, 2013
SFC Michael Hasbun
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I was reading through a few other awards threads on here, and it got me thinking about all the awards I've submitted Soldier's for that have either been lost by S-1 shops, denied due to "insufficient rank" or the quota system.<div><br></div><div>I can't help but feel that, regardless of the reason, that Soldier, deep down, just got a little bit more bitter and resentful towards the military, and that always breaks my heart slightly...</div><div><br></div><div>What do you guys tell yourselves in these situations? How do you rationalize this, or try to take away some of the sting when a deserving Soldier will not be receiving an award for reasons you can't enthusiastically explain?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>UPDATE</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Also, a follow up question would be: "what would be an ideal awards processing system to you?". What would implementation look like?</div>
Edited 12 y ago
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1SG Michael Blount
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Worst feeling in the world is trying to explain to a Soldier how somebody - miles away from the scene and not even there in most cases, riding a desk in a comfortable office - can deny a service award. 

 

Not only do I feel for the Soldier, but even worse is knowing I did my best, it wasn't enough. The Chain of Command, in general, and this 1SG in particular, let that Soldier down.  Pisses me off.

 

 

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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
I'm right there with you 1SG, I understand completely... Perhaps something positive will come out of the recently ordered "top to bottom" review of our awards system. Maybe not immediately, but perhaps in time...
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
12 y
SSG Hasbun - My faith in top-to-bottom reviews is tempered by the following: (1) the commander is only one person, and he'll get tired of beating his head against a wall only to see a brick move (2) the REAL problem is the layer of people in between the commander and the Soldier.  Those actors block, obfuscate, confuse and screw the real Soldiers out of the recognition they deserve.  Rather than a top to bottom review, I propose taking a page out of the USMC playbook and just clean the whole house - the whole damned thing.  (As you might be able to tell - I have no patience for bureaucrats)
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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I am aware as I type in this thread that despite our awards shortcomings, we here in the Army are still fortunate in that we will receive triple the awards our sister service counterparts will.. All things considered, we are still very fortunate.
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SFC Derrick Gordon
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Want
to hear a story, I had to retire from the Army because I didn't pass my
tape for that month plus my chain wanted me gone but that is another
story. I was in TRADOC senior instructor position so my boss was an
civilian DoD he did the write up not the unit because I didn't work for
them, I work for the school house. After 23 years of military service he
put me in for an MSM, the commander told me that the 1SG didn't think I
should be put in for a MSM and should down grade it to an ARCOM because
I didn't pass my current tape test. We both thought how dumb can they
both be, MSN is for the 23 years of service, not for what is happening
now during that time. When I got my award and saw that the captain did
downgraded it to an ARCOM, but the BN CDR denied that and recommended
that it stay an MSM and wrote in the comment box "After 23 years of
military service he deserve an MSM" along with the BDE CDR and the
Commanding General. I thought to myself how stupid were the 1SG and
Commander to recommend something like this and thought they would get
this pass. When I finial out I had the last laugh and that award along
with the back of the write up is fame hanging in my office and when
folks see it they think the same.
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SSG Company Senior Medic
SSG (Join to see)
12 y
Thank you for your service.  I guess in some people's eyes, 20+ years of service is just not good enough.
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CSM Mike Maynard
CSM Mike Maynard
12 y
SFC Derrick,

According to AR 600-8-22, you would have required a waiver to receive a retirement award if you were flagged for ABCP failure.

Only the first General Officer in your chain can process a waiver for a retirement award if you are flagged for ABCP and the waiver has to go up as an administrative action first, be approved, then you can make a submission for a retirement award.

I don't remember this always being the case, but I ran into this when I took over with a retirement award that was being processed incorrectly.

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SFC Derrick Gordon
SFC Derrick Gordon
12 y
CSM Mike I knew Reg. and you would think my BN CSM knew that also be he never advise me about it had another CSM tell me about it. I took the retirement because I didn't want to wait around there and put up with all the B/S this BN was doing. You would also think my BN CSM saw the award write up also and would tell the 1SG don't embarrass yourself and the CO, he must have agree with them both, but like I said I had the last laugh.
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SSG Aircraft Powertrain Repairer
SSG (Join to see)
12 y
I agree a lifetime of servitude does nto comare to symantics of the time.
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SFC Information Assurance Ncoic
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The award system should be gotten rid of.  I don't see how a SFC, MSG, 1SG, SGM, CSM, MAJ and higher gets a BSM for sitting at a desk for 12  months when a PVT who completed several combat missions and participated in 48 hr fire fights gets an ARCOM.  Awarding is more a popularity contest.  My last rotation the other PSG was reading his award and he stated I didn't do any of this.  He was telling the truth, It was everything I had done.  I got an ARCOM because I was disliked by the CMD, he got a BSM, even left Afghanistan early.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
It IS nice to see senior personnel venting their concerns on this topic here... 

It lends credence to what can casually be dismissed as "PVT's will always complain/ PVT's just don't understand the system".

I think it's apparent that those voicing in this thread DO understand the system, and have legitimate grievances...
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SFC Information Assurance Ncoic
SFC (Join to see)
12 y
The way I see it is awards shouldn't be confined by Rank, if a soldier is deserving of the award give it to them.  If all SSG and below say I'm only going to get an ARCOM so I'm going to give ARCOM work we would completely fail as an Army.  I'm not an award hunter, I'm satisfied with a job well done but as a Sr. Leader you frequently have to have this discussion with you're Jr. soldiers who feel wronged for getting the same or less of an award than someone who hasn't contributed as much to mission success.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
It's the lack of consistency that breeds bitterness... Some commands hand out awards like candy, other make them rare. The problem is, since they go for promotion points, a Soldier is basically being punished for being assigned to a stingy unit, while his peers get promoted ahead of him for equal or less work..
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SSG Aircraft Powertrain Repairer
SSG (Join to see)
12 y
as the old asying goes SFC rank has its priveledges lets push to get this CORPS back to what it should have been.
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SFC Shannon Ford
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I was recommended for the BS back in the day. Led over 400 patrols in Baghdad during the surge. I was told I just didn't have enough rank, only to see a guy a rank lower, on the maintenance team get one. He got out the wire twice. I was tired enough to let it go for the most part, but when I asked, it was because they needed to show they weren't biased. At the end of the day it doesn't matter. I'm pretty well retired now. But it would have been nice to look back on. Now, had the same unit been able to process my retirement award in time to get it on my 214, that would have awesome. Still tossing hoops to get a 215.
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CW2 Terrence Clancy
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As a former S-1 for an MP & a Support Bn. I would encourage leaders to submit their soldiers for awards and would give them guidance and instructions pertaining to the Regs. I would also give them examples of well written and successful awards so they could see the successful verbiage. Yes a well written award statement describing the rationale for the award is an excellent starting point. Key words and phrases are in my opinion necessary to highlight the rationale for the award.
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MSG Bob Metz
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With all due respect...screw statistics...and screw rank...the award and receipt of an award should be based on two things the performance/action of the soldier (EM/O) and the award of itself...a soldier should never have to write their own award...a requirement for leadership training should be awards...and how to write recommendations for awards...and for all those gimme awards...Good Conduct, Leadership TRNG, Overseas Deployment...etc...every Leader should know know who in their squad, platoon and company is eligible and deserving...and ensure the award is processed at thei level...too the S-1...and it should be a part of the NCO/OER system...but the most hypocritical criterion for any award...are 1. Statistics and 2. Rank...

Alas...I do not foresee...my opinion having any impact on awards...
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SGT Joshua Bressel
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My first deployment, as a young "Joe", in the Army Infantry, my unit, after our year, in '03-'04 endured some of the heaviest fighting of the Iraq war, and my Bn had, if I remember the exact number correctly, 147 Purple Heart medals, and 6 KIA, with 53 PH, and 1 KIA, a dear friend, from my company. We were told that "uncommon valor, is a common virtue, in the Infantry", and, despite some of thebravest acts, i have ever witnessed, even 4 deployments later, the highest award, in my Bn, was a SINGLE, Bronze Star, for Valor!!!!! There were 46 ARCOMs, for Valor, including mine, and I had 2 of the PHs. A Civil Affairs team we worked with, had n E-4, who was an english major, and he wrote ALL of their awards. It was a specialty(government infrastructure) team, so they were mostly officers, ALL reservists, and NOT Special Ops! He was so good, they got 37 Bronze Star Medals, FOR MERIT, and 3 Purple Hearts, all, for tiny, bullshit injuries, 2 of which, many believe we're faked(people cutting their arms, shallowly, with knives, during mortar attacks, then going to the CASH, and saying they were hit....). He was SO GOOD, in fact, that they let him put HIMSELF IN, and got him APPROVED, as an E-4, for a Bronze Star.....FOR MERIT!!!! Yeah.... The saltiness was real!
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1SG First Sergeant
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I was put in for a legion of merit for my retirement the write up was good approved by BN and BDE commanders and over the course of 3 years of back and forth it was forced to be rewritten as a MSM but all that happened was a blank DA 638 with my LOM narrative attached my BN commanders comment saying it should be a LOM and the Generals signature and dropped in the mail.
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SFC Jr Heinrich
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Like most, I was submitted for an MSM as a PCS award as an E-7. When it came back approved as an ARCOM, I looked at the back of the 638 to see where it fell short. The bullets/write up justified the award. The BN CDR (as a “recommend” approval/disaproval/upgrade/downgrade block) downgraded it, then was sent to the next recommending authority... what they did was not only against the regulation, but utterly lazy. They also recommended a downgrade. So instead of sending it up to the approving authority, they photocopied over the original with the O-6 signature block and sent it back as an arcom.
When I questioned the BN CDR as to what his reason was, he looked at me with a blank stare. He asked “why” I felt the need to question the award.. I pointed out the back of the 638 and asked “why didn’t it go to the person it was supposed to go to?” Again.. a blank stare. Then I pointed out that he had just awarded an MSM to a commander who had just lost thousands of dollars of military equipment off their property books..? Again.. a blank stare.
He then told me the reason my MSM was downgraded, was because I was recommended for a Soldiers Medal. I then had to explain to him the difference between the blocks on the front of the 638 “service & achievement” and how each of the blocks are categorized. I hate the fact it was downgraded, even more so that I had to educate a higher authority on what the AR 600-8-22 was and how to utilize it to the fullest of its potential. There was a little resentment towards that command because of their ignorance, but it was best to just push past and move on.
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