Posted on Jan 30, 2015
Would you chapter an NCO with 11.5 years of service for APFT failure 8 months before his ETS date?
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I have a fellow NCO (SSG) in my unit that has been in for 11 1/2 years and does not plan to reenlist. He is currently 8 months from his ETS date. He has failed the last three APFTs (Run event) but is steadily improving, about 1 minute improvement each test. He's never been in trouble for misconduct and has never had any UCMJ against him in all his career thus far. The chain of command has initiated chapter preceedings but haven't followed through with it just yet. The commander has already imposed a bar to reenlistment. He has 98 days of leave which would put him on terminal leave in about 5 months. He's only been counseled for APFT failure once and they will not give him any diagnostic APFTs. All three have been record APFTs back to back. He is wanting to submit a 90 day school drop which would put him out of here (if approved) by April on terminal leave but is afraid there will be push back from the chain.
A little background on the guy, he came to the unit on a compassionate reassignment last April due to his child's medical needs and about 5 months after he got here he was sent over to ACAP to work there on a 6 month rotation. At this point he had already failed the APFT once. There is no organized PT where he is so he is left to do PT on his own time.
What are your thoughts on this? Should his command have sent him to work at ACAP given his situation with his assignment and the APFT? Should he be chaptered or would you just let him ETS?
A little background on the guy, he came to the unit on a compassionate reassignment last April due to his child's medical needs and about 5 months after he got here he was sent over to ACAP to work there on a 6 month rotation. At this point he had already failed the APFT once. There is no organized PT where he is so he is left to do PT on his own time.
What are your thoughts on this? Should his command have sent him to work at ACAP given his situation with his assignment and the APFT? Should he be chaptered or would you just let him ETS?
APFT
ETS/EAS
NCOs
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 72
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For me, to be honest if he's ETSing in less than year I'd just let him go, it's not worth the paper work or the hassle. If there is no remedial PT program in place then JAG would throw it out anyway. I'd just flag him and let him go. I know that's not the UCMJ by the book answer but as a CO my admin load was already big enough as it was trying to get rid of all the bad conduct guys. This would have been pretty far down on my stack. Besides he'd probably just get a P3 and an MEB then he'd be in for another year while all that goes on.
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Bar is in place and the guy is still doing his job. I see no issues with letting him stay until ETS. As long as he isn't a discipline issue, there are bigger concerns today than an ETSing APFT failure. Helps out ACAP, and helps out the Soldier.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you SSG Travis, I'd also probably try to work an angle to push of his chapter until his ETS on top of that. Tons of units are short NCOs right now as it is...personally I need all the help I can get.
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From the looks of it, He shoulve been placed on the special programs following his first APFT failure. I do understand and consider he has served his share of time and is going through some situations. As an NCO he shouldve took "the initiative by taking appropriate actions in the absence of orders." (Pertaining to Unit PT, he shouldve took it upon himself.) As it looks to me, the unit is trying to cut ties, because of the draw down. I wish him the best. I wouldve just let him carry out his term, so he would be able to carry on with his civilian life. I also referneced;
FM 7-22:
6. APFT. In accordance with AR 350-1, the APFT will be administered for record at least twice a year.
a. Ideally, testing dates should fall within the months of April and October.
7. Unit Goals. Commanders should establish goals based on the physical requirements of the unit’s mission/METL.
FM 7-22:
6. APFT. In accordance with AR 350-1, the APFT will be administered for record at least twice a year.
a. Ideally, testing dates should fall within the months of April and October.
7. Unit Goals. Commanders should establish goals based on the physical requirements of the unit’s mission/METL.
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As much as I hate to say it. He is still an NCO until he is officially out, and respectfully, should lead by examole.
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You could try but chances are, he would ETS before that packet was processed. He does his ETS packet 90 days prior. That cuts it down to about 5 months ( he still has to drill until orders are received. You have to give the Soldier their Notification, then like most packets, they probably have 30 days to respond or make their rebuttal. Cuts it down another month. Then if mistakes are made, the packet gets kicked back for corrections
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this is the crap I dont miss about the military. where is the humanity? I mean come on people, soldier or not, everybody is human. we are not machines, the higher ups need to ask what they would do to themselves in his position. I am certain that the VAST majority would say, Im out in 8 months. not going to chapter myself. then there are the narrow minded leaders who think they have to make an example of people. every time I met one I just hoped I was around to see their actions come back and kick them in the tail. what a bunch of pricks.
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That NCO would be entitled to a seperation board. It would probably drag on for a month and then he would probably be discharged. However proper counseling and everything must be done to discharge.
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I would just let him ETS. He is given 11.5 years. ETS 8 months out. I have seen units take years to get someone chaptered
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As a reservist, everybody does pt on their own time and still manage to pass pt tests. I'm pretty sure there are regulations that require a certain amount of time between record apft. Even if that isn't the case, he must know that every month he will be taking another test. He needs to do more of what he is doing between now and the next test.
That being said, it is a waste of commands time and energy to expedite his exit. Having failed one APFT, he already flagged and therefore barred from reenlistment automatically. No need for further action.
That being said, it is a waste of commands time and energy to expedite his exit. Having failed one APFT, he already flagged and therefore barred from reenlistment automatically. No need for further action.
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