Would you chapter an NCO with 11.5 years of service for APFT failure 8 months before his ETS date?

The SSG., in question has been failed by his unit. The Record APFT is conducted every 180 days. Unless the unit commander agrees with the Soldier that he can pass for record the APFT. Before taking the APFT for record the soldier should have been counseled of the ramifications of attempting a subsequent for record APFT.

How could anyone advise him to take back to back APFT test as he did. He should have been given a Diagnostic APFT every month until the Record Date came up again and then do the Record APFT. The SSG. has been set up for failure, a good leader would have never agreed to follow a Back to Back course of action

Would you chapter a first term Soldier for the same? If that were the case how much weight would the ets date of the Private have? I don't sympathize with NCOs who fail to uphold standards and set an appropriate example. One foot out the door is not an exception.

Knowing up front we do not have ALL of the background and information needed to make a absolute statement.

Is it Separation under AR635-200 chap 13 he is looking at or???
I think you will find the commander was required to initiate the separation, per regulation. not doing so puts the commander at risk of dereliction of duty.
"e. Initiation of separation proceedings is required for Soldiers without medical limitations who have two consecutive failures of the Army physical fitness test per AR 350–1"


As a former guy that used to work up these action for his commander..the command team discussion is often..
Initiate? YES, reg says we have to.
Complete and process ? YES ...NO?
If no and we do not feel the need ensure the SM can not return to service later, then the SM separates at ETS and we all go our separate ways.
If No and we feel the SM should not have an opportunity to reenlist some time after ETS, then steps are taken to ensure he is not eligible (RE code of "4")
If Yes, separate then we understand it will be an adverse action and require extensive documentation over a reasonable time period that shows the transgression, failures, attempted corrective actions, and failures to those, transfer with documentation to another unit, counseling, continued observed failure to correct the issue..

Bottom line, based on what little is presented for the SM in question, I would have initiated the separation and told him, do your best, keep your head up and do it right, US ARMY...Uncle Sam Aint Released Me Yet so dont quite doing the job. And let it go at that....normal separation at expiration of term of service. Ar 635-200 Chap 4

Sorry using phone and it has a mind of its own they think the shouldnt have to follow millitary rules and I dont expect special treatment to clear that up before it is mistaken.

All I have read so far says look the other way and do not hold this NCO to the standards and accountable. So we should do this for all soldiers then that plan to ets out. Bar them from reenlistment and flag them and just let them walk out with a clean slate and a thank you for your service it was an honor. I cant be the only one that sees an issue with this. This just burns thr NCO creed to the grown. As I have always been told keep personal business at home and military in the military. Granted not saying he/she cant seek help but if you cant keep it together and perform as a soldier as well as conduct your personal buisness then one of two things either change personal buisness to ware it isnt affecting your career or simple hang up your career and leave but dont ask for favors because you cant hack both. I have family issues but I dont let it effect my career. I am simply going to adjust fire. Seperate from family because they cant hack being in the military and except I follow guidelines and instructions. I tried to explain but seem to think they should have to follow and be able to live still as a civilian and I should be aloud to as well. I'm sorry as I swore mission first and completion of my mission. I wont stop moving forward and expect special treatment because of the seperation, but I came in know that the mission comes first and once completed then I can relax. So back to subject I think that somewhere chain of commands have gotten soft on NCOs but then expect to hang a soldier out to dry. We then become the guilty ones of showing soldiers as soon as you become an NCO you can get away with everything and only Joes are the ones to be punished.

I have seen it happen to soldiers with just 2 months before ets and med board packet is completed why should an NCO not be held to the same standards. The NCO is suppose to set the standards and live up to the stadards he/she enforces their soldiers to adhere to. When I get pinned my SGT I , as I do now, will not put myself in a position to fail and then to expect special treatment if I would. Then the soldiers under me would then think they deserve the same if they fail. What would we be showing our soldiers. It has been getting bad enough with the new soldiers coming that have norespect for the rank structure let alone with attitudes. Its time I say we take our military back and clean up the slop that has come in. Soldiers and NCOs alike. I would be embarrassed to be that senior NCO over that NCO listening to him asking for that favor to look the other way.

I've reas some coments on this issue and the only word that comes to my mind is "compassion". I know the Army run on rules, and manuals, and regulaciones but there is always a way to work on cases like this. I know we lead by example. But I too know that the Army is compose of human beings. As a retired NCO some times I think back of my fellow soldiers. The one I was in charge of. And I remember how many times the came before me looking for a solution for their issues. I understood more of their situations. And I also learned to disciernes between the fakes and the real one. And benn compasionate with them help me gained their trust and was easy to work with. I agree To give this man his ETS.

Like the CSM says, it would be a waste of resources and everyone's time to pursue this if he is separating in the near future. The systems is already working now that he isn't able to re-enlist. As to what others think and questions they may ask, sometimes you just need to worry about yourself and not others. In my experience, many in the military can barely look after themselves.

I am currently assigned to a Brigade and am recently recovered from a lower back injury. I have recently been medically cleared to physically train again (physical rehab release) but was issued a perminant profile for running. I have been struggling to loose the weight I had gained while I was out with my injury. My unit is aware that I am a record failure but continues to give me diagnostics in between our mandated record APFTs. I have as well been counseled and my ETS is this May pending my passing APFT and reclass scheduling. My unit is seeing progress with me and is either holding back the proceedings for me, or allowing me to return to an acceptable fitness status without initiating the proceedings.

I believe that the unit's command may be able to lag the process since the soldier is showing improvement if it is the soldier's wish to remain in the Army (as is like my situation). I have had several meetings with my commanders and 1SG as well as have been assigned an approved physical fitness regiment. My suggestion would be to have the soldier utilize the open door policy and have a meeting with his leadership and discuss the situation. If the leadership is aligned with the soldier's wishes and is understanding, they may be able to fix the situation.

I Will never use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit or personal safety.
KICK HIM OUT!