Posted on Feb 19, 2014
You can't "smoke" soldiers anymore. So... More article 15s?
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<p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">It's copied and pasted from APRT.COM but it's all there in the FM </span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><br></span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">FM 7-22 Para 5-15. When exercise is used for corrective training or corrective action, it is often performed incorrectly, promoting </span><a href="http://www.armyaprt.com/prt-exercises/overtraining-syndrome.html"><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><u><font color="#0000ff">overtraining syndrome</font></u></span></a><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">, and overuse injuries. Often corrective action mimics “smoke sessions,” punishing Soldiers with little or no corrective value. Consideration must be given to the number of times per day exercises are used for corrective action for individual Soldiers and groups of Soldiers to avoid the cumulative effect and limit the potential for overtraining syndrome. The following guidelines should be followed when employing exercise as corrective action.</span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><br></span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">Only the following exercises should be selected for performance of corrective action.<br> Rower.<br> Squat bender.<br> Windmill.<br> Prone row.<br> Push-up.<br> V-up.<br> Leg tuck and twist.<br> Supine bicycle.<br> Swimmer.<br> 8-count push-up.</span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><br></span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">Only one of the above exercises may be selected for each corrective action. The number of repetitions should not exceed FIVE for any one of the exercises listed above</span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><br></span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">So there are only a few different options here, since making a soldier do 5 reps is a joke, and wont teach anything. </span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;"><br></span></p><p><span style="line-height: 17px; font-size: 14px;">Does that mean we should just write up 4856's for everything wrong a soldiers does? I understand the Army's worried about hazing, but taking away an effect means as punishment and leaving us with the only option to write up soldiers. </span></p><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://www.armyaprt.com/images/APFT-logo.png"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a href="http://www.armyaprt.com/prt-exercises/overtraining-syndrome.html" target="_blank">Army Overtraining Syndrome</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">Causes Of Overtraining Syndrome And Overuse Injuries. Safe progression for performance improvement is complex, involving many variables that impact success</div></div><div style="clear: both;"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>
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Article 15
Article 15
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
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Wow times are changing, I mean , back when I was in basic in 1997, in my barracks we had a room designated for that only reason " smoking " . We called the House of Pain.
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So, doing paperwork is better then doing some "extra pt". Wow that's weak...lol
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You know what the best part about his is. Joe dosnt know any regulation, but will be able to memorize this verbatim by tomorrow.
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Doesn't ar 600-20 ch 4-20 say something along the lines of you can administer corrective training within a reasonable amount of repetitions to go along wth a 4856. You can't treat all soldiers the same but you need for them to understand quick fast and in a hurry that joe is in trouble for violating army values, late to formation, etc. doing something wrong. Personally I don't have any patience for ethical or moral wrong doing and have held some long corrective training behind the clinic for those that violate this. I don't like the way the Army is moving with this. But heck if smoking is "wrong" and the army is down sizing lets to ahead and help the movement and remove those that don't have the potential.
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Everyone talking about how "soft" the military has gotten needs to understand, the limitation on physical reprimand was put into place because not all the time the punishment fit the crime. Taking in account the number of injuries both minor and major, what did a "smoke" session do that talking to someone couldn't have done? To the people ready to say fitness was better, I cannot fight that, but I will say at what cost? You over exert and push through muscle failure. Everytime you do this you get a little stronger, but everytime you are playing with matches. If you want an additional loophole for the new rules of corrective training, who says I can't leave you at "1" or "2" position of the movement. I don't have to "smoke" you to make you sweat. Hold the "1" position of thesquat bender until I tell you to go to "2", and quickly put them right into "3". Sometimes the answer is in the regulation.
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SSG (Join to see)
putting someone in a start position, back to the position of attention, into a start position, back to attention etc is not a repetition and I am confused as to how you would see it as such since there is no "in cadence, exercise" in "start position, move" and "position of attention, move". It is not a repetition.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well judging by the amount of times I have screwed up as a junior soldier, I was offered the lesser of two evils, either a physical training counseling or a written one.
When a warrant walked in on it, he asked what the hell was going on. I was told to answer and explained that I opted for a PT counseling instead of a written. He stated carry on. That was the end of it.
I like leaders who do that and I plan to implement that later on in my career.
When a warrant walked in on it, he asked what the hell was going on. I was told to answer and explained that I opted for a PT counseling instead of a written. He stated carry on. That was the end of it.
I like leaders who do that and I plan to implement that later on in my career.
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SSG (Join to see)
and I can agree with that, better to sweat a little bit compared to having your career stalled or finances hurt for something stupid. So yeah, I agree and have done that myself..
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SGT (Join to see)
SPC Mayhew-
This may be the naive part of me, I fully believe and support in education and assisting to actively correct the problem. You ll notice one of my initial postings on here was "Can You Polish a Turd?"...not only did I get some great feedback from other leaders on here, it was also an enlightening experience when I ve gone and had to do on the spot corrections, and quite a few other things. For example, a 2 star had his name tapes on backwards. Did it with tact, and did it respectfully. Have also done that with a CW3. On the flip side I ve never changed how I interact and assist with junior troops, either outside my chain or not. Everyone gets three chances with me-if it keeps going the same way, same mistakes, and the soldier is not progressing, then I will be happy to start a papertrail.
This may be the naive part of me, I fully believe and support in education and assisting to actively correct the problem. You ll notice one of my initial postings on here was "Can You Polish a Turd?"...not only did I get some great feedback from other leaders on here, it was also an enlightening experience when I ve gone and had to do on the spot corrections, and quite a few other things. For example, a 2 star had his name tapes on backwards. Did it with tact, and did it respectfully. Have also done that with a CW3. On the flip side I ve never changed how I interact and assist with junior troops, either outside my chain or not. Everyone gets three chances with me-if it keeps going the same way, same mistakes, and the soldier is not progressing, then I will be happy to start a papertrail.
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When I was a Rifle Squad Leader, I would never "smoke" a soldier...<div><br></div><div>What I would do is give it training value. Here are some examples. Dig a fighting position to standard and once complete, fill it in (although doing this near the barracks got me in trouble, haha), Low crawl, high crawl, 3 second rushes, with and without a pro mask and MOPP suit, and things like that. Make them move in full kit (to include body armor) from cover to cover, etc...<div><br></div><div>Br creative and turn a smoke session into training that the soldier can use.</div></div>
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SSG (Join to see)
lol,, near the barracks,, nice But I agree and appreciate your opinion/methods, good stuff
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if anything its the punishment should fit the crime if hes late give him time hacks i.e. sprints to the barracks and back or make him come to work earlier i do believe smoke sessions work some mistakes you don't make again when your smoked for a hour. i know everyone has there different opinion on it but im all for smoke sessions it teaches the soldier a lesson and doesn't follow his career. but sometimes it just doesn't work and ucmj comes in to play, and sometimes we can't get around it. but like i said the punishment should fit the crime.
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All because of a liberal news media that has never served. Did I say news media? I'm sorry, I meant liberal scream machine.
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I personally feel that many soldiers I have seen would have benefited from a summarized Article 15 earlier in their careers. I'm one of them. However, I also feel that we need to get back to a more old school way of things, and smoking and wall to wall counselings are part of that. If those don't work, then you proceed with the necessary steps to pursue an Article 15.
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CPT Mike B Martinez Ramirez
Although. I understand your point of view I respectfully disagree. If as you say, going from smoking to wall to wall counseling and then to Article 15 is the answer then as a leader you have failed. There are a lot of ways to deal with different situations. As a leader you need to study the situations and look for alternatives. Each generation of Soldier handle situations differently. We as leaders need to study our surroundings and take appropriate actions. This Army is made out of a lot of professional people. That is why we are a professional force.
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