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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Apr 11, 2018
MAJ Corporate Buyer
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1stSgt Sergeant Major/First Sergeant
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Edited >1 y ago
Good points, Skipper. Semper Fidelis
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COL Deputy G2
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Yea, so we are going to have kids show up to school how many hours early to get through the security check point to get searched? It will be worse than going to the airport. Oh but its worth it to secure our kids you say. Let’s not lose sight of the purpose of the school. It’s for kids to learn and there isn’t much learning when kids are getting up two hours early to get through the security line. So you block the shootings at school and the shooters move to sporting events. You do the same for the high school football game? I’m not saying this is a complete no starter cause that’s not where it is but short of putting everyone in bubble rap there will always be risk in large crowds of people that torment others. We can’t treat schools like embassies-
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COL Deputy G2
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All ideas help because they create an environment for more ideas.
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A Wiegert
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COL (Join to see) - All ideas? What if we shorten the learning portion of the school day? I know I wouldn't have minded spending time screwing around in a security line instead of being in class, if I got to get there and go home at the same time! But then I suppose someone will want to take away summer vacation to make up the class time. And taking away summer vacation would probably inspire more violence than it would prevent.
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LTC Physician Assistant
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If we really wanted to think about all ideas then we would have to think about altering the learning environment entirely. If we continue to pile more money into the un-natural environment of a school then we will always lose in the long run. Acceleration of alternative methods of education delivery and financing would allow a decentralization of education. The primary responsibility for educating the child is the parents. We need to refocus our society to allow this again to take the forefront. The current, most common model for education is inefficient and focuses more on warehousing children rather than educating them. The rules imposed by this system actually creates the exact situation that we then want to spend more money on to prevent. By building and running the school system the way we have over the last 100 years we have created the problem that exists today of mass school shootings. There is no one answer but a combination of alienation of children, bullying, loss of parental responsibility, increasing control of humans by a system, increasing governmental control over individual actions and freedoms all contribute to the increasing mental disorders, lack of empathy and increasing institutionalization mindset. Boiling things down to one issue will never solve the problem. This is a complex problem that requires complex answers and avoiding tackling those problems because of complexity allows the problems to perpetuate.
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LTC Physician Assistant
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A Wiegert my children don’t get a summer vacation and they are not violent......summer vacation is a relic of the farming economy.....on the flip side of that argument is the argument that why put children in school at all?? As noted in my previous post above actually institutionslizing children for the greater part of their lives seems to cause more problems than it solves and doesn’t seem to be very good at educating them either....again, I think we need to fully open our minds and free them from the grips of past societal trends which doesn’t allow us think out of the box and develop real solutions to these problems.
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SN Jay Perry
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Valid points, BUT how many of these shooters have a family (parents/support) to watch over them to STOP them from even considering it? As for FMJ, most people shoot it because it is CHEAPER that hunting rounds... As for the AR-15, I do not have one, but have fired one several times, they are fun to shoot, comparatively cheap ammo, and 'cheap' to buy.
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You're absolutely on point. If you want me to talk about where I think the problem begins, it's in the home. When the American family started falling apart, so did our society.
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SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
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American society has turned lemming. We have a shooting tragedy. The first impulse among many is to petition big government to do something, often as the panic spreads, anything such as seizing weapons from the innocent and law abiding. Why isn't the first impulse that we in the community have to do something? If the schools in our town are in danger, let US do something about it. As the CPT has stated, it will not be cheap, nor will it be completely effective. Start at least with one or two armed guards. Control access points with metal detectors if that's feasible. The Parkland shooter was an ex-student. He knew the school. He could have avoided metal detectors and possibly, controlled access points. But he could not have avoided armed guards. If you are going to defend against attackers with guns, you're going to have to defend with guns. That's the way it is.
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Cpl Billy Nichols
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As a police officer know in life. I have worked effortlessly in my schools and every time I bring up simple solutions they ge shoot down. The reason is always money or ( one of the biggest problems) the school system from top to bottom are of a liberal mind set and simply can’t wrap their heads around denying access to any location or God for bid if they actually had to take the time to enter a secure area.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
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MAJ (Join to see) This is a great piece. Yes money will always be the prime mover when it comes to anything that is paid for out of our taxes. The other reality is that a person who is committed to committing a heinous act such as a school shooting, and is willing to die to complete their act, cannot be stopped. Life involves a certain amount of risk. Every time you walk out your front door could be the last time. Nobody who dies in a traffic accident wakes up thinking that it will be their last day on earth. I like your suggestions. I would say start with replacing the glass doors many schools have with metal storm doors designed to survive a hurricane. That would be the cheapest start to securing the schools. Second move to the idea of putting a wall around all the schools. Put a wrought iron fence at the top of the wall to make scaling the wall more difficult. If done in small batches, it can be built up to the point where the schools are like fortresses. Or we can just keep blaming the implement, and having useless debates.
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Sgt Wayne Wood
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yup... last i looked when you went to secure a position the first thing was to SECURE THE POSITION.
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SPC Steven Nihipali
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This should be a no brainier... Having a QRF security team in place, jic shtf... I've been saying this since I joined the Army in 04. Having those assets available, being a barrier after barrier, that shooter is going to get tired and fail. Doesn't matter if the shooter knows the security plan, it's called a defensive position.

My oldest child, his first elementary school was built with the check in office in the front, the only person to push the button was the secretary, if she was offerd, the AP/and police officer were only a door away. The entire building was brick and concrete. Safest building I felt good in, in a long long time.

I swear I need veterans building schools and making up security details
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Maj Bruce Pawlak
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Excellent thought process. I've also seen where the scenario is linked to the school fire problems we had way back when. A long time ago there was concern about fires in schools. The answer was not to put a firefighter in every school, the answer was to rethink the design of schools to use technology to lessen the incidence of fire. Therefore, why don’t we rethink school design to “harden” schools to make school shootings more difficult?

For example...

Protective Measure 1. Build entrapment rooms between inner and outer doors at school entrances. When someone comes to school they enter the outer door, which locks behind them. Inside the entrapment area is a metal detector. If the metal detector goes off then the next door remains locked and the person is entrapped waiting for law enforcement to resolve the issue.

Protective Measure 2. Many newer public facilities (hospitals, schools, etc.) have fire doors in hallways that automatically close when the fire alarm is triggered. Use bullet resistant heavier doors that lock. These doors could be placed every 30/60... feet down each hallway. In the event of an alarm these doors would shut and entrap a possible shooter, limiting the shooter’s ability to harm more students beyond those doors. These doors would have to be tamper-alarmed so that if someone attempted to tamper with the door to keep it open the alarm would be triggered – in the event of pre-planning the shooting – no tape over the locking mechanism or prepositioned backpack to keep the door from closing.

Protective Measure 3. Every classroom door locks when shut. Classrooms are totally (doors, walls, windows, floors, and ceilings) bullet resistant.

Protective Measure 4. Each school would have a “secret location” alarm room to be manned and monitored when students are present. Alarms and security cameras EVERYWHERE! Monitored in the alarm room AND by law enforcement. Each classroom would also have two-way intercom with law enforcement. A loud noise sensor might be employed as well to isolate trouble areas for the alarm/video monitor.

Protective Measure 5. There is a company that builds hardened-bullet resistant safety shelters for school classrooms. They can also double as a tornado shelter. Cost is approximately $1k +/- per student (higher grades cost more, lower grades cost less: size of students).

Protective Measure 6. Schools might have to be consolidated to make them safer. Co-locate National Guard armories, police, fire and ambulance substations at schools. Schools could become regional at centralized locations to lessen the costs of separate secured facilities...

Cost-benefit analyses, operational risk management... all valid factors in determining the best path to keep our investment in the future (our children) safe... And it will cost us... just like fire prevention... hopefully this problem can be resolved just as easily with a cost that we can reasonably accept.
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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Those are good ideas. And while most will agree that measures like these need to be taken, it will still come down to how much money are we willing to spend.
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A Wiegert
A Wiegert
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I feel like there are so many schools across the continental U.S. (never mind what things must be like in places like Puerto Rico) that lack funding for basic educational essentials, that it is hopeless to expect funding for security for them. Students have marched to make their desire for safety known, but has that improved things for them, really? I wonder if they marched for funding if it would have as little effect.
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MAJ Project Manager
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good article...I would have to agree. We did it for our military installations worldwide after 9/11...I felt like I was reading the FM and Army Reg 190-13.....hehehehe...It is just amazing how different the environment is inside school these days. When I was in high school 1980-1984, the worst thing you would hear about was the occasional fight, someone bringing a pair of nun-chucks to school and smoking pot...sheeesh!
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MAJ (Join to see) - It's very concerning for sure...I have heard of kids getting seriously hurt or killed over sneakers, game consoles, cell phones, lunch money...OMG will it ever end....sheesh!
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MAJ (Join to see) - Well to be fair, lunch money these days is probably $25!
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MAJ Project Manager
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MAJ (Join to see) - Heheheh...it can be if your child has permission to get lunch off campus...luckily for us...we can pay our child's account online now. My wife says it's about $15 a week.
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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MAJ (Join to see) - Not as bad as I thought.
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SA Samuel Swearingen
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CPT, I have discussed this several times with fellow vets. One of the things we have come up with is to hire unemployed vets to act as guards. Of course they would have to go through screenings and background checks, along with having to re-qual with weapons handling. To help support said guard, get one of the local duty stations to provide a few servicemen (women) to act as subordinates. These servicemen could use this as a means of serving in-active duty time, or using reservist as their postings. Just my two cents Sir.
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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That's definitely a viable option. Regardless of what measures are taken, it will come down to cost. As with everything else.
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SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
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I like this idea. Maybe because I'm retired and a vet. I think a pool of retired veterans willing to volunteer their services offers an attractive option. However, although they would have to be re-qualed and schooled in the law, there is an element of liability which would have to be addressed. Who would indemnify a volunteer from an accidental shooting or if indeed a shoot-out did occur, liability for the death of the shooter? A volunteer guard should not have to put his freedom and estate at risk in order to perform this public service.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
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Hire them as employees and pay them $1.00 a year
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