Posted on Oct 9, 2014
Does the Camp Lejeune death show we need to crack down on firearm safety?
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Yesterday, Marine Lance Cpl. Brandon Little was sentenced to two years behind bars for inadvertently shooting and killing a fellow Marine outside the Camp Lejeune main gate back in April. Little’s rank and pay were also reduced to E-1, and he will receive a dishonorable discharge.
Little said he had been absent-mindedly flicking the safety switch on his M4 service rifle from “safe” to “semi” while directing traffic at the end of a 12-hour shift. When he returned to the gate house he was about to unload his weapon, but didn’t check to make sure the safety was on. He pulled back the charging handle and accidentally chambered a round. When that happened, he stood up to try to correct it, but pulled the trigger in the process, shooting Lance Cpl. Mark Boterf who was in front of him.
The lead attorney for the government argued Little should get a five-year sentence with forfeiture of all pay and rank and a dishonorable discharge for violating all four of the Marines’ cardinal firearms safety rules. Would a tougher sentence have sent a more powerful message for all Marines and service members?
On the other hand, Little’s defense pointed out he had taken full responsibility for his actions and stressed he will endure a lifetime of guilt and torment for what happened. Since this is an isolated incident, should Little’s punishment be left at that?
This tragic case certainly brings attention to the importance of weapon safety and proper procedures. The Marine’s death was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had Little not been messing around with his gun. Are some service members becoming too comfortable with carrying such powerful weapons that they forget safety measures?
What can be done to prevent these tragedies from happening? What are some mistakes you’ve seen fellow service members make with their firearms that go against proper safety measures?
Little said he had been absent-mindedly flicking the safety switch on his M4 service rifle from “safe” to “semi” while directing traffic at the end of a 12-hour shift. When he returned to the gate house he was about to unload his weapon, but didn’t check to make sure the safety was on. He pulled back the charging handle and accidentally chambered a round. When that happened, he stood up to try to correct it, but pulled the trigger in the process, shooting Lance Cpl. Mark Boterf who was in front of him.
The lead attorney for the government argued Little should get a five-year sentence with forfeiture of all pay and rank and a dishonorable discharge for violating all four of the Marines’ cardinal firearms safety rules. Would a tougher sentence have sent a more powerful message for all Marines and service members?
On the other hand, Little’s defense pointed out he had taken full responsibility for his actions and stressed he will endure a lifetime of guilt and torment for what happened. Since this is an isolated incident, should Little’s punishment be left at that?
This tragic case certainly brings attention to the importance of weapon safety and proper procedures. The Marine’s death was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had Little not been messing around with his gun. Are some service members becoming too comfortable with carrying such powerful weapons that they forget safety measures?
What can be done to prevent these tragedies from happening? What are some mistakes you’ve seen fellow service members make with their firearms that go against proper safety measures?
Camp Lejeune
Marine Corps
Safety
Firearms and Guns
Command Post
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 76
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I think what happened was tragic, a mother and father will never see their son. But I think in looking at this strictly from an experience standpoint, the reality is that accidents do happen, misfires always happen when soldier/marines/airmen/seamen are given guns and bullets. While we (especially leaders) all tend to jump on the bandwagon and shout how much training we get with guns and bullets, the reality is we do not get as much as we think, when we really look at it. Yes we go thru basic training and we always have a weapon, but seldom do we have bullets. We get bullets when we go to the range, but that is under very strict and controlled circumstances, and we have 10 guys watching us and telling us what to do. The next time we see bullets again is the annual firing range, again under strict and controlled circumstances. SO where is all this training with real guns and real bullets? Yes when we get deployed, but I am not sure that is a good example when I was assigned from the 82nd to Pan Mun Jom, where we were issued guns and bullets. Daily we went north, we loaded our bullets, we came back to Camp and we unloaded our bullets. We had accidents all the time. In fact one of our SP4s shot a troop in the leg, he took out his pistol, slid the slide back, forgot to take the magazine out and standing in line waiting for the firing barrel shot the guy in front of him. It was an accident- stupid yes, but an accident. We had a troop clearing his weapon shot the dashboard of a jeep, in the JSA secure zone, in front of the north koreans. We had accidental misfires at Checkpoint 1, the guard house, checkpoint 5. It was very common and my undertanding it is common today. I know alot has changed in the military and the last 10 years we have had troops in combat zones for a long time, however in 2011 it was stated that since the beginning of the U.S. operation in Iraq, more than 90 U.S. military personnel have been killed there by negligent weapons discharges. These are just those that actually killed someone, god know how many actual accidental discharges happen. IN 2005 when I was in Iraq I saw at least 4 in just one week at the Palace. http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/05/13/negligent_discharges_one_subject_the_military_really_doesnt_like_to_talk_about
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20131111/CAREERS03/311110031/Documents-Colonel-relieved-negligent-discharge-didn-t-know-gun-loaded
It is clear that there is a lack of training. Rather than focusing on the individual and what and how to punish them, we should be looking at the true problem. Sending this young marine to jail, will not bring the dead soldier back, it will not stop the next accident, it only means another soldier will not be free to see his family, his life is ruined and the fact that he volunteered to defend this nation, knowing we are at war will be lost. Lets look at the problem, analyze the truth of how much training any soldier gets, from infantry to cook, then fix the problem. Soldiers should be given guns every day, they should get blanks every day and this will train them that every gun is always loaded, all the time. Treat it as such. Just my two cents.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20131111/CAREERS03/311110031/Documents-Colonel-relieved-negligent-discharge-didn-t-know-gun-loaded
It is clear that there is a lack of training. Rather than focusing on the individual and what and how to punish them, we should be looking at the true problem. Sending this young marine to jail, will not bring the dead soldier back, it will not stop the next accident, it only means another soldier will not be free to see his family, his life is ruined and the fact that he volunteered to defend this nation, knowing we are at war will be lost. Lets look at the problem, analyze the truth of how much training any soldier gets, from infantry to cook, then fix the problem. Soldiers should be given guns every day, they should get blanks every day and this will train them that every gun is always loaded, all the time. Treat it as such. Just my two cents.
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1. One must violate all 5 safety rules to hurt someone with a Negligent Discharge (ND). 2. If you live and work with guns for long periods you will likely have an ND, reducing harm requires compliance with the rules and supervision. 3. The question posed by rallypoint 'do we need to crack down?' Again poses a request for assessment with insufficient data. Are ND incidents rising, falling, or staying the same?
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The real tragedy is that "accidents" (including negligence without malice or forethought) cannot be eliminated altogether.
The first (and most major) indicator here was the alternating function (Safe-to-Semi-to-Safe) due to boredom.
Leaders must understand that it is the -small stuff- that leads to big stuff. This is why we address uniform standards and hold inspections. Diligence must be practiced both on AND off-duty, and is nothing to ever be assumed.
The second issue here, which is one we can take as a learning example, is that this LCpl may have taken full responsibility, but there is nothing he can say or do, that will undo what happened.
As leaders we must remind our Soldiers that they have the power to make an irreversible decision at any time.
The first (and most major) indicator here was the alternating function (Safe-to-Semi-to-Safe) due to boredom.
Leaders must understand that it is the -small stuff- that leads to big stuff. This is why we address uniform standards and hold inspections. Diligence must be practiced both on AND off-duty, and is nothing to ever be assumed.
The second issue here, which is one we can take as a learning example, is that this LCpl may have taken full responsibility, but there is nothing he can say or do, that will undo what happened.
As leaders we must remind our Soldiers that they have the power to make an irreversible decision at any time.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see), I tell my Soldiers frequently that there is nothing that is done in the Army, or any other Branch of the Military, that is done for no reason. Everything that we do and every day that we do it serves to reinforce the lessons that we have been taught while we have been in the Army, or Military on a whole. Complacency Kills, is what I was taught by my DS in BCT.
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1SG Mike Case
You are exactly right SFC (Join to see) about the boredom and also why we do the inspections because small problems lead to big ones.
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Stoopid is as Stoopid does but no How many rounds get hammered home and don't kill people 12 hour shifts was he being punished??? or are the Marines so short handed in Combat Arms???
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SSG Don Maggart
You have your Right to your Opinion I have only Voted down one Comment in my time on RP perhaps it's time to pitch my poncho and move on...laffs
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SSG Don Maggart
@ GySgt Charles Smith - Sir I have 2 brothers, Who turned Morine from a family of Rangers once after serving in the US Army Infantry both 0311's if you can't hack it don't pack it...laffs Sorry in spite of my fine Infantry training it was mostly limited to reports FLASH SPOTS ETC...laffs Never had to bury no-one...
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GySgt Charles Smith
Hooah!!! Looks like I pegged you right. Always good to meet a fellow warrior who is not so sensitive that he gets offended by everything.
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GySgt Charles Smith
SSG Don Maggart - I have removed the downvote and voted your comment up. I was busting your chops. you're the real deal brother; You didn't get all offended like everybody seems to be doing these days. My apologies for the inconvenience.
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No! We only need Marines to do what they are trained to do from the earliest stages of recruit training and what is continually reinforced throughout their career, be it 4 years or 24.
1. Treat every weapon as if it was loaded.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I also know first-hand that every Marine, before they get to the rifle range at recruit training, can quote them, demonstrate them through safe weapons handling and pay a tremendous price for any violation of them as that training is reinforced by Drill Instructors and Primary Marksmanship Instructors. All 4 safety rules had to be neglected in order for this unfortunate incident to occur and that is why we dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident, while it was not intentional, was no accident, as tough as that may sound. It was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times. He would have had to see a gigantic sign with them (the firearms safety rules) posted at the armory every time he drew his weapon and every time he cleared it at the clearing barrel (which is where he should have been; another procedure that he neglected to follow). While I am on that note, if members of his chain of command/ chain of leadership allowed such dangerous disregard for weapons clearing procedures (i.e., clearing weapons somewhere other than a clearing barrel) then they share some culpability for not maintaining a proper safety climate; that would need to be addressed in a top-down review.
1. Treat every weapon as if it was loaded.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I also know first-hand that every Marine, before they get to the rifle range at recruit training, can quote them, demonstrate them through safe weapons handling and pay a tremendous price for any violation of them as that training is reinforced by Drill Instructors and Primary Marksmanship Instructors. All 4 safety rules had to be neglected in order for this unfortunate incident to occur and that is why we dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident, while it was not intentional, was no accident, as tough as that may sound. It was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times. He would have had to see a gigantic sign with them (the firearms safety rules) posted at the armory every time he drew his weapon and every time he cleared it at the clearing barrel (which is where he should have been; another procedure that he neglected to follow). While I am on that note, if members of his chain of command/ chain of leadership allowed such dangerous disregard for weapons clearing procedures (i.e., clearing weapons somewhere other than a clearing barrel) then they share some culpability for not maintaining a proper safety climate; that would need to be addressed in a top-down review.
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So, we send a guy to prison because we're mad at him for being irresponsible and careless. Lock him up with a bunch of rapists, murderers, and other career criminals who will certainly do nothing to improve that aspect of his character. Then, best case scenario, in two years we put another person on the street who is unemployable (dishonorable discharge and prison time), completely dependent on government assistance, potentially of a criminal mindset now that he's spent all that time locked up with other criminals and his options are severely limited if not non-existent. Who benefits from this? Are we less mad at him? Is the Marine he killed brought back to life? Is society in general more safe? When are we going to start thinking about the end-game when it comes to criminal justice?
Discharging him from service goes without saying. Other than Honorable is probably more appropriate, since the death was not intentional (murder) and therefore doesn't really rise to the level of Dishonorable conduct in my opinion. We give Dishonorable discharges for things like treason, desertion, and pre-meditated murder - are we really putting this accident in the same category? Reduction in rank is also a no-brainer. Prison time is just salve to make us feel better in the moment and will only serve to harm us all in the long run.
Did anything happen with this Marine's chain-of-command? If this kid was an E-3, there were a lot of layers of folks above him responsible for his training, discipline, and the command climate in the unit that would allow for something like this to happen.
Discharging him from service goes without saying. Other than Honorable is probably more appropriate, since the death was not intentional (murder) and therefore doesn't really rise to the level of Dishonorable conduct in my opinion. We give Dishonorable discharges for things like treason, desertion, and pre-meditated murder - are we really putting this accident in the same category? Reduction in rank is also a no-brainer. Prison time is just salve to make us feel better in the moment and will only serve to harm us all in the long run.
Did anything happen with this Marine's chain-of-command? If this kid was an E-3, there were a lot of layers of folks above him responsible for his training, discipline, and the command climate in the unit that would allow for something like this to happen.
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GySgt Charles Smith
I can see your point here and I hope that you possess the maturity to see mine without becoming upset or defensive despite the fact that on some points we are in disagreement. I say that because I am too old to waste time in an internet “pissing contest” with someone who only wants to argue with those with whom he disagrees. I am not saying that is the case with you, but it happens all too often on the internet. For the record, I agree with you that his punishment seems rather harsh considering it will not bring that Marine back and will likely destroy his prospects for a bright future (I say likely because there are many examples of people who never given up and went on to be successful despite both dishonorable discharges and prison time). Unfortunately, this was not an “accident,” it was negligence.
1. Treat every weapon as if it was loaded.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I know first-hand that every Marine before they get to the rifle range at recruit training can quote them. He had to violate all 4 of the firearms safety rules for this tragic event to occur and that is why we dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times and I can promise you as a Marine for over 20 years that he could recite all four as easily as he could recite his birthday and social security number (that is not propaganda; I would not do that). By the time we reach 2 weeks in basic training, every Marine knows, can recite and practices these rules at some point everyday in our 12 week basic training and they are continually reinforced at all times. He would have had to see a gigantic sign with them posted every time he drew his weapon from the armory or cleared it at the clearing barrel (which is where he should have been; another action he neglected to follow). While I am on that note, if leaders in his chain of command allowed such disregard for procedures (clearing weapons somewhere other than a clearing barrel) then I agree with that point as well, that they are culpable. I feel for this young man just as you seem to, but you should also know that all members of the armed forces (regardless of service branch) are subject to the uniform code of military justice and the manual for courts martial is quite clear when it comes to sentencing guidelines in these unfortunate incidents. He did not receive the maximum punishment that could have been levied (in case you do not have access to a MCM). I hope this helps to at least shed some light on why his punishment actually fits the crime (intentional or not, the fact that he was “negligent” makes it a crime) If a teenager is driving and texting and hits someone, most people would agree that it is a tragic accident, but the law would call that negligent homicide or vehicular manslaughter. I am sure as an NCO you can see the similarity.
1. Treat every weapon as if it was loaded.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I know first-hand that every Marine before they get to the rifle range at recruit training can quote them. He had to violate all 4 of the firearms safety rules for this tragic event to occur and that is why we dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times and I can promise you as a Marine for over 20 years that he could recite all four as easily as he could recite his birthday and social security number (that is not propaganda; I would not do that). By the time we reach 2 weeks in basic training, every Marine knows, can recite and practices these rules at some point everyday in our 12 week basic training and they are continually reinforced at all times. He would have had to see a gigantic sign with them posted every time he drew his weapon from the armory or cleared it at the clearing barrel (which is where he should have been; another action he neglected to follow). While I am on that note, if leaders in his chain of command allowed such disregard for procedures (clearing weapons somewhere other than a clearing barrel) then I agree with that point as well, that they are culpable. I feel for this young man just as you seem to, but you should also know that all members of the armed forces (regardless of service branch) are subject to the uniform code of military justice and the manual for courts martial is quite clear when it comes to sentencing guidelines in these unfortunate incidents. He did not receive the maximum punishment that could have been levied (in case you do not have access to a MCM). I hope this helps to at least shed some light on why his punishment actually fits the crime (intentional or not, the fact that he was “negligent” makes it a crime) If a teenager is driving and texting and hits someone, most people would agree that it is a tragic accident, but the law would call that negligent homicide or vehicular manslaughter. I am sure as an NCO you can see the similarity.
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SGT Robert Deem
GySgt Charles Smith , I've never been the accused of being the brightest bulb in the harbor, but I know wisdom when I see it. I often find myself frustrated over our overuse/misuse of the prison system. We've gotten to a point where we're not correcting or preventing bad behavior, so much as exacting revenge. I think I've let that frustration blind me in this case because you're absolutely right; this isn't a case of a simple accident, but of gross negligence. This Marine's negligence ended in the death of another not because of blind luck, but because of the negligent act itself.
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GySgt Charles Smith
I completely understand your frustration and agree wholeheartedly that the criminal justice system is in major need of reforms. Rehabilitation and reform of prisoners is no longer the goal. The goal does seem to be punishment and retribution. Most prisons are now privately owned and there is more money in keeping people locked up than there is in rehabilitation.
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He got off easy. Fire arms safety is no joke. especially with Marines it is DRILLED into their skulls
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It has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. No matter what rules are in place and how much training is giving there will always be an idiot who does not think. I find it funny that society will jump all over a firearms incident but, we have the same things that occur with motor vehicles on the roads that kill people daily and yet there is no media coverage or push for taking the drivers off the road. Since I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1994-2002 I know of two Marines killed by negligent discharges of firearms. So I am sure there are other Marines who have been in prior and after who have knowledge of the same type of incidents going back to 1775. Lesson here. Do not stand in front of someone unloading a firearm.
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I firmly believe that no matter his levels of contriteness or remorse, he was a complete and utter idiot, in this case. He did not follow his training, orders, or common sense. He KILLED a fellow Marine through his actions. He should have received the maximum punishment allowed under the UCMJ.
On a side note, we carry live ammo for gate guard now??? When I enlisted after September 11th, my first duty station was korea. I was in a foreign country pulling gate guard, and we weren't issued ammo. And there were riots happening outside of military bases over there, back when the military was shutting down most of the camps up north, and drastically expanding Camp Humphries...
On a side note, we carry live ammo for gate guard now??? When I enlisted after September 11th, my first duty station was korea. I was in a foreign country pulling gate guard, and we weren't issued ammo. And there were riots happening outside of military bases over there, back when the military was shutting down most of the camps up north, and drastically expanding Camp Humphries...
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This is an on duty incident with an issued service weapon. Service weapon safety should be re-iterated and monitored repeatedly. This was reckless endangerment by the soldier. The military should stay out of the matter of privately owned firearms.
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SGT Steve Vincent
MSG, reckless endangerment on his part would have been if he had AD'd into the roof of the guard shack, or even clipped someone. He killed someone through his actions. That is negligent homicide at best, and 1st degree manslaughter at worst.
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