The Marines Defend Their Women

SMSgt (Join to see)
I am so sorry for what your daughter went through. It is unfortunate that response is so common in the Army. We're, both men and women, are working to fix that.

What kind of a bunch of pussies has the Army become? We're trained to fight, at least that's want basic training was supposed to be for, to teach you fight, and look out for your fellow soldier. Hmmmmmm, it would appear, that mission is a failure.

SSG Shawn Armstrong Shawn, as I said at the beginning of my post, I hear what your're saying and like you (been there done that), however that Army as we knew it is long gone! You now say "What kind of a bunch of Pussies.....become?. In certain light I think the say, however, The Army has changed, every branch has changed, even the USMC (though not as much as the Army). I think we got off track and the discussion has taken two paths. You are talking specifically about sexual assault and abuse, and I have broadened it to include overall NCO supervison, leadership (management) from above that immedately impacts NCO supervision and leadership techniques and styles (my bad). In the case of a sexual assult you get no arguement from me. However, NCOs can NOT use the leadership and supervision methods that we grew up with and used in our day. I hear it often from present day 1SG/CSMs who were E3-4-5 in my unit when I was their 1SG. They do not like it, but they have to enforce the new "Army Strong" standards polices that come down from DA. The one place where I have seen some of the old Army traditions, styles, methods continue is in the Armored Cav units. Cav units have always been renegades, proud of it and no unit has ever done it better. Regardless of how you feel that the Army has come too...bottom line is this, the Soldiers and NCO and Jr. Officers fought for the last 12 yrs, did a damn fine job of it. They make up the majority of the Army. When you say Army to me, I think of them, not the policy makers at the Pentagon, MACOMSs, etc. The Army is the troops who put their feet on the ground and run toward the fight. They are far from being the "Pussies" you speak of. Regardless of the screwed up polices that come out White House, Congress, DOD, DA, Major Commands, the Army (troops, NCOs, Jr. Officers, Co. Cdrs) did their job, in some screwed up situations, screwed up ROE as well at times. But they did it well! We are fortunate that we still have some fine Leaders as LTCs, COLs, and some Gen. Officers. However, as our society continues to take a downward turn, so will the Military. But Pussies, no they are not.
Appreciate your feedback and your opinion. WE don't differ as much on the subject as you may think. I would have enjoyed having you and your Plt/Squad in any unit I was in. I appreciate your mindset, every command team wants PLTS/Squads as you speak of....then we were able to focus on those who were not yet up to that standard.

I’m talking about anything, the team comes first period. The team keeps you alive. Fuck the Army Strong standards, that’s the participation medal generation speaking. That train of thought gets you killed, or you have PFC’s who walk off their post, and get promoted to Sgt. Because they’re captured. You only have to enforce what you report, and what your team will report. If you’re a fucking dickhead, and have no purpose for what you do, you will get your ass handed to you. If your troops know there’ss a purpose, and your there with them, suffering, sweating, and sometimes bleeding unfortunately, you’ll get more out them than bitching. You can stick your cav shit in your ass, I was attached to a cav unit in Iraq, I have my combat spurs, they thought it was odd, that I would want to get out of the Humvee, and chase down a guy, who had shot at us, killing the enemy I guess is not a scout mission. If I wasn’t sniper qualified, I wouldn’t have been with them in the first place, not that I got much of a chance to be a sniper, I might have hurt someone. Today’s Army is full of pussies, cry asses, momma’s boys, and just plain retards, and it’s not their fault. Look at every war we’ve had, eventually, the Army always lowers it recruiting standards, and I know, I worked for recruiting command, briefly, while I was recuperating from and injury. We have, out of all the countries I’ve trained with, the highest ratio of retards and assholes in the world.

It's apparent that there can be no discussion of value with one who can see no further then his own point of view, nor can see past days that have since been long gone. One point of leadership is that when one unwilling to see past their own point of view and is unwilling to view or respect the thoughts of others, there is no sense in continuing the discussion. I don't know what they call it now, but I used to call it, "Never argue with an idiot!" Kudos to you and your accomplishments, the paths you've walked, I"m sure they are many! Hopefully one day you will realize (whether we like it or not, good or bad) the Army does not march to the same tune we recall. We had our problems in our days, flooded with Cat 4 Soldiers and hallow squads and units. Today's Army has it's issues just like ours did. You've slammed the entire Army over the same kind of knuckleheads and idiots we had, so do you also mean the Army of your day was in same situation as you say it is today. Time moves on, the Army moves on! You can choose to march in place in the past if you wish! Which makes it all the more difficult to have a sensible and intelligent exchange in conversation. Please turn off the light when you leave the room.

SGT Rick Nyberg I can see where the title may come across as praising all Marines but I would hope after reading the post, it would explain the discussion came from one single Marine female to one single Army soldier.

"But please do not think for one second that ANY soldier will not or would not stop anything like this from happening."
SGT Nyberg, I am not sure if you have not read the multiple stories posted on this thread from service members who are telling their story of how they have been attacked and no one would help. I know there are a lot of comments on here but I assure you, the stories are on here. I know that's disheartening but all we can do is keep trying to fight and stamp out this type of mentality and behavior within our ranks.

I agree that to say Marines take better care is false, that is why I said I can see how the title misled the intent of the post. I'm agreeing with you, not arguing it.

If you're reading it, then I'm not sure how you can continue to say that you know soldiers would come to the defense of another soldier yelling for help. I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree and that's fine because at the end of the day, I know where you stand on this and that is you will defend any of your fellow soldiers in need of help.

I have one word "Tailhook".
Unfortunately this happens in all branches of the military.  

It absolutely does take place in all branches of the military...that is problem! However, there is no training that is going to change this unfortunately. It is going to take stiffer punishment, up to and including a BCD, and each fellow service member to stand up for one another to prevent things like this from transpiring. This is not a problem just in the Army, and I would never say that soldiers, airmen, or shipmates do not stand up for their own. I have been in both the Navy and the Marine Corps. While the Marine Corps feels more like a family to me than the Navy, does not mean that as a Seabee, we did not stand up to prevent anything negative or dangerous from transpiring. Of course, I have not had to protect anyone from a sexual assault, but I certainly would have.

SSG(P) (Join to see) yep! and when I left 1SB, signal co was in all kinds of deep water over the same stuff man. Craziness!

when was this bud, not during our deployment? was it?

No brother, was at Garrison, you were long gone by then. In our deployment was a mess around stuff and it was swept under rugs a lot.

So many stories like this. It is heartbreaking but I believe you and support you.

I am sorry to hear this. I know this is a personal question, and you don't have to answer: Did FLW have any sexual harassment/assault response measures in place? Were you offered the chance to see a counselor?

Sir, I was offered nothing! The only thing noticeable was that we (the SMs that utilized the common area where the attack occurred) were told that we were no longer allowed to drink in that area, however, this was not enforced, and the SM that attacked me was told to stay away from me but he continued to hang around the area. When he was around, I would retire to my bunk. People would talk about what a slut I was and that I just had next morning regrets, but what people failed to realize is that intercourse never occurred. Apparently his narrative was a bit different than mine. About two months after this incident I deployed to Iraq, and after my deployment, I began exhibiting symptoms of anxiety. I have since been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and I have to wonder if my attack, and the way CID treated me has factored into that. I suffered sexual abuse when I was a child, as well as when I was a teenager. I received counseling for both, and was cleared for Military service, and I honestly feel like a stronger individual for having been through that already. As in, had I not been through that in the past, I may have froze when I was attacked in that bathroom and suffered a full on rape as opposed to an attempted rape, but nevertheless, attacks of that nature lay a burden on a person psychologically.

We always take care of our own...and yes that almost got me in Deep S on more than one occasion.

I guess "rare," but I've seen it happen along my career(i.e. female calls rape, dude gets slammed with charges, female says it was consented as she cools down from God knows what drama, and charges are taken back, but the kicker was soldier still got chaptered out of service)--it happens because sometimes woman don't like losing control and that's one way to feel(key word) "Empowered."

Ok but it is still VERY rare and regardless of those rare cases, until there is an epidemic crushing our military the way VALID sexual harassment and assault is, then I beg you to please focus on the real issue.

I'm not picking on you, it's really not like that(keep that in mind and you also opened up Pandora's box :-P).

Some things I just don't trust as easy then it was said, because words are used so easily without thinking before they hit the lips; nowadays, I've even seen a battalion wide EO about a Damn doodle on a porter box(and that's why I say empowered as a key word: when power slips one wants it back in anyway possible).

And this is also vice versa for males.

It is her mindset that I am impressed with because clearly if she felt that way all along after all these years that means she always felt protected by her brothers. It's the bigger picture, not just the act itself.

I don't think anyone is implying that Soldiers are all rapists...the post is about the culture between the services and how this female Marine doesn't feel like she needs to worry about sexual assault because she knows that fellow Marines would come to her aid, however, many female Soldiers don't feel the same security from their fellow Soldiers. That is not to say that there are not many Soldiers that would run to the aid of a Soldier in distress, be it a female Soldier or a male Soldier, because I know for a fact that there are many Soldiers that would come to the defense of a brother or sister in need. But, I can also attest to the fact that there are many Soldiers that would not. The fact of the matter is, sexual assault and harassment is a big problem in the Military as a whole, and there has been a big problem with toxic leadership sweeping it under the rug, to the extent that it goes underreported because "what's the point?".

Yes you said it PERFECTLY SGT Artiesa Woods!