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I asked a former female Marine if she had experienced an overwhelming amount of sexual harassment/assault while she served in the Corps. To my extreme surprise this was her response (paraphrased of course):
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
Gender
Women in the Military
Command Post
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 197
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Very well put! It does not matter what gender you are, if a comrade is in danger, it IS the duty of a true comrade to come to their aid! There is no place in the honorable service that is the United States Armed Forces for anyone who would prey upon another member. Whether it is a sexual predator, the drug dealer, or a barracks thief, those without honor in the ranks need to be promptly dishonorably discharged, and stricken from the honor of being known as a veteran!
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I think it is awesome that her fellow soldiers came to her aid. It is nothing less than what I would expect. Unfortunately many soldier don't see each other on an equal basis not only on the basis of sex but of MOS. I spent over 30 years in the military in the medical field and it was always the medical field weren't real soldiers. That is unfortunate.
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MAJ Sheldon Smith
Just as combat arms depend on the medical field, we depend on our fellow soldiers. Regardless of race, sex, orientation, religious beliefs, or socioeconomic background or service affiliation we are one on the battlefield. I don't even have to have the same beliefs as another soldier to have his or her back.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, Vets,Active Duty and Reserve,
Remember this is from SSGT. Woods experience, as you read all the comments we all have seen or had instances where We acted or knew someone that did to help a fellow Marine, Solder,Seamen, Airmen or Civilian when in danger from sexual assault. It is an Unfortunate thing the Military as a whole has to deal with regardless if the Victim be Females or yes even Males. And it is something we all would hope and wish every Military Family member old and new would stand up and fight against and help those in need. That IS everyone's duty after all right?! Right. That also should Crossed over no matter what Branch you are with. As you saw from my 1st. commented post I have had to deal with this very subject while i was in and I would do the same if the person in need / Danger was from another Military Branch or even a Male and from what i see here it looks like you all would do the same. Every branch has Knuckleheads Male and female that take things to far and it is our job to make sure we stay diligent and make sure we do our part to get those that have no internal fortitude and self restraint and Honor are Handled and removed from our Military Family Because They do not belong. Regardless of rank...Like i said before No one comes into my house and messes with my people Rank and Branch did not matter. If you were in what I decided was in my area of responsibility I would stand up and defend you from those that were not part of us. for me it was always protecting those around me. And yes that mentality almost got me charged and standing before the man many times. The only reason I never did is because they saw why I acted the way I did and knew I meant no disrespect and they saw the pride I had in doing my duty of protecting my brothers and sisters.
Remember this is from SSGT. Woods experience, as you read all the comments we all have seen or had instances where We acted or knew someone that did to help a fellow Marine, Solder,Seamen, Airmen or Civilian when in danger from sexual assault. It is an Unfortunate thing the Military as a whole has to deal with regardless if the Victim be Females or yes even Males. And it is something we all would hope and wish every Military Family member old and new would stand up and fight against and help those in need. That IS everyone's duty after all right?! Right. That also should Crossed over no matter what Branch you are with. As you saw from my 1st. commented post I have had to deal with this very subject while i was in and I would do the same if the person in need / Danger was from another Military Branch or even a Male and from what i see here it looks like you all would do the same. Every branch has Knuckleheads Male and female that take things to far and it is our job to make sure we stay diligent and make sure we do our part to get those that have no internal fortitude and self restraint and Honor are Handled and removed from our Military Family Because They do not belong. Regardless of rank...Like i said before No one comes into my house and messes with my people Rank and Branch did not matter. If you were in what I decided was in my area of responsibility I would stand up and defend you from those that were not part of us. for me it was always protecting those around me. And yes that mentality almost got me charged and standing before the man many times. The only reason I never did is because they saw why I acted the way I did and knew I meant no disrespect and they saw the pride I had in doing my duty of protecting my brothers and sisters.
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1LT William Clardy
LCpl Steve Smith, you sum it up quite eloquently with your summation of the First Rule of Functional Society: "No one comes into my house and messes with my people"
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The sad part is having been in a similar situation, the situation being a physical attack and not sexual in South Korea. At the time when everything started I had thought if I could just get into the hallway of the barracks someone will hear the commotion and help me. I was supposed to feel safe. I mean I was on an Army installation, I was in an MP barracks, and CQ was on duty. No one stepped out side their rooms, CQ never checked to hear what the noise was, and I came to the realization I was not safe, and to top everything off the male who attacked me portrayed himself as a friend. I had to fight my way out. The blessing is I got out with a black eye and a few bruises. But it changed my whole perspective on soldiers. Not just "male" but as "female" soldiers as well. I don't know why it is that the line of trust is not across the board in all branches. I do think that with all this madness of trying to draw-down, tensions will flare. and in this mix we are faced with who stays and who goes and to this causes a blind eye to what needs to be seen. Everyone wants to save themselves. and interfering in anything but your own business can either set you up for success or set you back with failure. And maybe it something else I don't know.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
I am so sorry that happened to you! I do think you're right in saying people don't want to interfere, for one reason or another. Im sure some don't interfere because they have interfered before and it bit them in the butt. I know some who will still interfere and don't care if they get in trouble for it. Regardless, I know I have started looking at myself as a leader and trying to catch if I am blowing something off that shouldn't be. Not necessarily something as extreme as a full-blown attack but I don't even want to allow an environment that would give the impression that crazy behavior would ever be accepted.
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SPC Rachael Lavertu
I read this book that talked about how when something happens to someone and it's considered an act of God it's easy to side with the victim. Such has if someone's house is destroyed by a tornado. But when the act is committed by a human then it is easier to side with the perpetrator because they ask one thing. That you do nothing. While the victim asks that you get involved, help, sympathizes, empathize. I have silence is an agreement tattooed on my wrists in latin. If you see or hear something that is wrong and you do nothing you agreed to let it happen.
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Soldiers have a positive duty to defend each other. The sex, race or rank of a soldier is irrelevant. However mostly we don't.
It falls under Personal Courage. Either you have it or you don't.
It falls under Personal Courage. Either you have it or you don't.
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you DB's (and no one else better call any of you that) were with me when it all counted...I'd be a worse than a broke dick to not make sure you had/have the same respect WE get when WE walk on the scene...if they fear how I fight for my brother in arms; what can they expect from me for my sister...
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I am not sure why this does not happen in Army Units today. When I joined back in 1986, my barracks in Germany actually had Coed bathrooms and Showers. That's right. Flak Kaserne, Ludwigsburg, Germany. We didn't have any issues. First, if one of the guys in our Unit disrespected or tried to harm one of our female Soldiers, he was gonna get it from the rest of the guys in the unit. Secondly, if a guy outside of the unit disrespected or tried to hard one of our female Soldiers, he was gonna have a bad day! We took care of our own. We were one big family. I don't know how we lost that over the years.
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Marines are very different from their Army counterparts, that is why we are Marines!
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Back in March 2003 for OIF1 at Camp Fox, Kuwait my first duty posting was literally on one of the female tents that a Gunnery Sgt had snuck into and groped one of the females. The Camp Commandant personally gave me and the two other Marines covering the tent hatch the order to shoot any male that ever attempted to force their way into the tent. Marines take care of their own. Regardless of sex, anyone who would force themselves onto another person deserves to be stomped out in a loud, violent and merciless manner.
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I was a 1SG now retired, Females are different, they require different PT test and different Uniforms and different latrines. sometimes a logistical nightmare. With all the gay rights and equality bull crap. set the standard of dress and the standard of physical fitness and the standard of behavior and then and only then will we have equality. latrines should have private stalls all should use the same latrines just as we do at home. if a soldier has to do 50 push-ups to be fit to fight does it really matter if that soldier is black white male or female? I always thought the double standards were prejudicial and decisive.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
I think you both agree on the atrocity of sexual assault but you disagree on the PT standards.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 1SG Harold Piet is saying we should all have one standard because the enemy doesn't pick and choose by gender.
SPC Rachael Lavertu is saying the reality of it is we do have different standards because men and women are different and PT standards have nothing to do with one's ability to perform their job.
To be technical, PT standards are a measurement of one's physical fitness level, not their ability to fight the enemy. In my humble opinion,
equality is impossible because men and women are biologically different however equal opportunity for everyone is an attainable dream.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 1SG Harold Piet is saying we should all have one standard because the enemy doesn't pick and choose by gender.
SPC Rachael Lavertu is saying the reality of it is we do have different standards because men and women are different and PT standards have nothing to do with one's ability to perform their job.
To be technical, PT standards are a measurement of one's physical fitness level, not their ability to fight the enemy. In my humble opinion,
equality is impossible because men and women are biologically different however equal opportunity for everyone is an attainable dream.
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SPC Rachael Lavertu
When it comes to fighting the enemy I went to ever class that men go to. We all qualified the same way, tool hand to hand combat, combat lifesaver. I also understand the reason women tend to not go into combat is because men see women as inferior and unable to take care of themselves and will risk their life for a women they otherwise would not if it was a male. That comes down to someone's mindset of women. I think if men would stop focusing so strongly on our differences and we all were just soldiers then it would be okay. PT is a very small aspect of what we do. I do agree if a person man or woman can't perform the duties of their job then they should be reclassified.
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CPL Justin Vosicky
Actually the military has been performing studies for years on this. During Hurricane Katrina, there were researchers actually in a Houston hospital studying women's' menstrual cycles. This is one of many, but an example just the same. Its not really about what men can do and what women can or can't do, it's more or less, what special considerations have to be made to women on the front lines. Women have more needs than men and also have a need to be cleaner. I will tell you that during main invasion (IRAQ), I was with the spearhead infantry unit 3-15 INF 3ID and I was in a bad sanitary state. When we finally had water to wash with, due to water shortages, we were already almost 4 months into the war. Lets just say women need to clean more than that and sometimes baby wipes doesn't cut it. DOD has been working on having women up front because of the equality question, but behind closed doors its more of a sanitary and health situation.
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SPC Rachael Lavertu
I understand that as well. When I was in women could not go more then 4 days without a shower. Due to our anatomy we are more prone to infection. As gross as it is when a woman has that time of the month there is a smell. War has changed where there is less running through the woods and worrying about the enemy smelling you. I imagine there are still some missions like that but not like before. We don't line up on a battle field anymore. I think if enough time and effort was made the military could find a sanitary solution for men and women to prevent infection.
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