Posted on Apr 8, 2015
Veterans: Have you joined the American Legion or VFW? Why or why not?
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As I wrote this, responses to that question were arriving every minute from the "Vietnam Veterans Only" group on Facebook. It seems my question hit a nerve. Take a look at a random sampling of the responses in the image...
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 202
I have not and WILL not. I would not consider it, even if it meant having the assistance I need in life from other Combat Vets.
I have visited multiple VFW posts in my career. I have never been so rudely treated or felt so out of place in my life. I was ostracized for being "one of the crazies" in the Iraq war. I was deemed "not old enough to relate to a 'real' combat soldier" by the Vietnam vets. I was laughed at because my time prior to 9/11 was "not real war". I am looked down upon because I don't drink to excess out in public. I can fully understand that there is some resentment from the Vietnam Veterans, because the combat vets of Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom, and Iraqi Freedom were welcomed home much more rapidly than they were, but there is no reason to pass on the hatred to a younger generation just because you experienced it. Just because the WWII and Korean war vets did not welcome you home with open arms and because the hippies called you names does not give you carte blanche to perpetuate your hatred to younger combat vets.
I have researched many posts and this attitude promulgates nearly every one I have been to. I have seen them overseas (in multiple countries), I have read and observed them in multiple states. I have looked into Post 1 out of Denver, again, found quite a few things that bothered me.
Additionally, I see the AL and VFW try to polish their images by giving several token awards annually to high school JROTC programs, but that does not make up for the damage they do on a daily basis through their actions to the younger generations of combat vets. These organizations are merely on a glide-path to their own demise. I think at this point, it should happen - just let them fade away with the remainder of those that hold them so dear...
I have visited multiple VFW posts in my career. I have never been so rudely treated or felt so out of place in my life. I was ostracized for being "one of the crazies" in the Iraq war. I was deemed "not old enough to relate to a 'real' combat soldier" by the Vietnam vets. I was laughed at because my time prior to 9/11 was "not real war". I am looked down upon because I don't drink to excess out in public. I can fully understand that there is some resentment from the Vietnam Veterans, because the combat vets of Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom, and Iraqi Freedom were welcomed home much more rapidly than they were, but there is no reason to pass on the hatred to a younger generation just because you experienced it. Just because the WWII and Korean war vets did not welcome you home with open arms and because the hippies called you names does not give you carte blanche to perpetuate your hatred to younger combat vets.
I have researched many posts and this attitude promulgates nearly every one I have been to. I have seen them overseas (in multiple countries), I have read and observed them in multiple states. I have looked into Post 1 out of Denver, again, found quite a few things that bothered me.
Additionally, I see the AL and VFW try to polish their images by giving several token awards annually to high school JROTC programs, but that does not make up for the damage they do on a daily basis through their actions to the younger generations of combat vets. These organizations are merely on a glide-path to their own demise. I think at this point, it should happen - just let them fade away with the remainder of those that hold them so dear...
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CPT Jack Durish
CW3 Eric W. S. It's interesting that your complaints sound identical to those voiced by many Vietnam Vets. I guess you ran into some cretins who misinterpreted the concept of "paying it forward"...
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FN George Woodruff
CPT Jack Durish - This is a sad commentary on veterans organizations. While some of what is said is true without these organizations and their lobbying power those of us who served would have little voice in political circles. If you don't like what you see in a nearby Post or Chapter join and work to change it for the better. One of the major problems is that veterans organizations end up being operated by the tiny minority who actually attend meeting while other members ignore them and bitch about what they do or don't do. When I came out of the Navy after world War Two I joined the American Legion. Being 19 I didn't fit into the group composed of World War One veterans and quit. I went back into the Army and when I got out I was determined to change the status quo. Being a disabled veteran, I joined the DAV and eventually became a State Legislative Officer as well as State Resolutions Chairman. That way I could work to help other veterans get earned benefits and pass resolutions for change at State Conventions. If you don't like what veterans groups do work to change it! The one you help may be yourself!
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I have been a member of the American Legion for about 50 years. I originally joined because one of my college fraternity brothers had just been elected post commander and he was recruiting younger vets. Been a member since then although a few years ago I moved to a different area and became a national member instead of belonging to a post. I was made welcome from the start and my first post had veterans from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. We even had several women members. I have continued to belong because the posts in my area have always done a lot of good for both veterans and the youth of the community. I am not eligible to join the VFW although I have several nice certificates from them for donating money. I also donate to the DAV and several others.
I am sure that some people have had problems with local posts because some vets do resent more recent vets but I have never had that problem. Now I am the old timer.
I am sure that some people have had problems with local posts because some vets do resent more recent vets but I have never had that problem. Now I am the old timer.
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SSG Michael Hartsfield
Honestly, I'm waiting until I get to my home to look for an AL or VFW home. I know it's a lame excuse but I don't want to join a house in a place I'm not going to plant roots.
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I joined the American Legion. I did so for the fellowship of those who served.
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CPT (Join to see)
I joined the VFW when I came back from Nam 1970, Life member and Past Post Commander Post 4287, Joined the American Legion in 1979. The VFW was sorta hard with the old timers. (Korea & WWII) They were really set in their ways, but not one treated me with any disrespect. The commraderie and stories were very meaningful.
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Suspended Profile
I'm a member of DAV and JWV. I was sort of a member of IAVA when they were VMW...
Yesterdays REMF is todays Fobbit and you Fobbits know who you are.
I have chosen not to join either. I have talked to a few members of IAVA, and I have not been convinced to participate as a full member with them either. But if I need to make a choice I would go with IAVA. I have gotten the occasional "old soldier" give me "you new guys don't know what war is" which I just take with a grain of salt. I imagine WWI vets telling the same thing to WWII vets "you new guys never experienced gas attacks or machine guns like we did". Hell I had a 98 year old Marine call me a "boot" when I told him I served in the Corps. That really made me laugh.
Anyway, they all serve their perspective generation and service men and women. They are all looking after Joe/Jane so that works for me. I'l make up my mind one of these days, in the mean time, just sitting at a post and listening to the stories is worth more that the actual membership.
I have chosen not to join either. I have talked to a few members of IAVA, and I have not been convinced to participate as a full member with them either. But if I need to make a choice I would go with IAVA. I have gotten the occasional "old soldier" give me "you new guys don't know what war is" which I just take with a grain of salt. I imagine WWI vets telling the same thing to WWII vets "you new guys never experienced gas attacks or machine guns like we did". Hell I had a 98 year old Marine call me a "boot" when I told him I served in the Corps. That really made me laugh.
Anyway, they all serve their perspective generation and service men and women. They are all looking after Joe/Jane so that works for me. I'l make up my mind one of these days, in the mean time, just sitting at a post and listening to the stories is worth more that the actual membership.
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Suspended Profile
SSG Ricardo Marcial - Not a problem, I guess I would be one of those REMF's or Fobbits that you dislike so much! All I can say is I volunteered during a time of war and I did the job I was ordered to do and I went where I was ordered to go! That's pretty much why I don't join these organizations as I know my service will be devalued. I thank you for your service to this great country.
SSG Ricardo Marcial
Gentlemen/Ladies.
I want to apologize if my comments above offended anyone. I value everyone's contribution to this country and I would never intentionally diminish the sacrifice made to this country.
SSGT David Swart. I apologize and thank you for your service.
I want to apologize if my comments above offended anyone. I value everyone's contribution to this country and I would never intentionally diminish the sacrifice made to this country.
SSGT David Swart. I apologize and thank you for your service.
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MSG Jay Jackson
I did 25 as a 63 series in the US Army. I will be damn if any one calls me a REMF. Now a good ole fashion b@@L busting I can take, but saying you did more<<<<it just goes against the grain. You SF, Navy Seals, and others yea got it, you are the exception, no problem. But for different generations of warriors to degrade each other,,crazy. If you served you time,did your job well you are my brother or sister, yea you AF folks to :). By the way I plan to join the VFW, AL this month and renew my membership in the Military Order Of the Purple Heart. I'll let you know how it goes.
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AL PUFL, VFW Bronze Legacy Life, DAV Life, AMVETS Life, AMRA Life, TREA Life, AUSA Life, NCOA Annual
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I was a VFW member. However, I did not feel welcomed in the post. I would get glared at and carded for my membership card repeatedly in a single visit. This has happened in three different posts in three different states. Any organization that is so anti-newcomer does will not get a single cent from me. Don't get me wrong I believe in what the organization stands for on paper, its just in practice I don't like being treated as a second class citizen because I wasn't in Nam.
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SFC Thomas Howes
Yes you are right then there are those post that let anyone come in and don't even card them to see if they are a member and you can tell they are not
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I joined the American Legion in my town. We did not have any Veteran Organization 3 years ago and a handful of us formed a Legion post. We ate now the only formally recognized Veterans Organization here in Pflugerville, TX.
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I was a member of a VFW post near Dallas while I was stationed at Fort Hood. A buddy got me involved since his uncle was a member. That was 5 years ago. I now reside in Maryland and I'm an "at large" member. There's an AL post 3 miles from my house. Next to the train station where i park my car everyday. I've never stepped inside because when you look through the windows you'll see slot machines.
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I haven't joined because I want to be settled first. I am due to retire in a year and a half, and if I do join I want to form strong connections with the members in my chapter... Also, this is a little embarrassing, but the chapter in the small town I live in is about 2 miles form my home - but it is dry! I don't want to join a dry VFW. There is one about 22 miles form the house that serves alcohol, but it could pose problems because I have to drive ot get there... Just sayin'!
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