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As a mental health provider focused on suicide prevention, formerly on a Department of Defense (DoD) installation, and now for the Veterans Health Administration (VA), I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard some variation of “I can’t tell my doctor these things because they’ll take away my firearm.”
So, bottom line up front, a mental health professional (psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, marriage and family therapist, etc.), your primary care doctor, really anyone in the healthcare field, cannot legally remove, or have your firearm removed. Only law enforcement personnel has the authority to make that decision and take action on it (unless you’re on a military installation in which case you’re subject to the policies of that installation and Service regarding privately owned firearms). In fact, even in most states with Extreme Risk Protection Orders, medical or mental health professionals are not legally able to initiate the firearm removal process, it has to come from the individual, a family member, or the police themselves.
One of the pillars of behavioral and medical care is patient confidentiality—healthcare providers are legally and ethically bound to protect their patient’s privacy, with just a few exceptions involving life-threatening circumstances. Unless you state that you’re in imminent danger of harming yourself or someone else, what you say during a medical appointment must stay in that appointment. Military providers are bound to those same rules, with the exception that commanders may receive information about a Service member’s fitness for duty, and there is a formal process for how and what information can be shared. Thus, a behavioral health provider cannot reach out to the police with concerns about your firearms, except in those extreme situations where they feel that danger is imminent. Doing so, outside of those emergency situations, would violate federal Privacy Act and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) requirements.
So, why does this myth persist? I think that, in part, this is because we’ve all heard a story where someone’s firearms may have been removed…but it’s likely that there are nuanced details of those situations that aren’t always appreciated. The other piece is that it’s common practice for a behavioral health provider to ask a Service member or Veteran, pretty bluntly, if they own a firearm or have access to them. That question has a very specific purpose regarding risk assessment for suicide. But because it can sometimes be asked without much context as to ‘why’ it’s being asked, it can seem kind of threatening.
What’s likely to happen if you say “yes” to that question? Well, the provider is most likely going to ask some follow up questions like whether you practice safe firearm ownership behaviors, if you have had recent thoughts about harming yourself or someone else, and where you keep your firearm (in a safe/lockbox/locked up or not) and how you store it (loaded/unloaded). Talking about these things will not result in you losing your firearm, but it will likely result in a conversation about your safety. The provider may even ask you to spend some time creating a plan for how to minimize the chances that your firearm will be used to end your own life. This is a collaborative process, and you have a say in everything that goes into that safety plan.
Safety is an interesting word in this context and can mean totally different things for the firearm owner than what the healthcare provider is intending. Typically, when a behavioral health provider talks about firearm safety, we’re talking about the use- and storage- of firearms in a manner with the lowest likelihood of accidental or intentional self-harm.
And the reasons why are pretty clear. Seventy percent of all Veteran suicides occur from self-directed use of a firearm. The same is true in about 65 percent of military suicides, and 50 percent of civilian suicides. In Washington State, for example, 78% of all firearm related deaths in any given year are suicides. Further, we know some really important pieces of information about suicide:
- 71% of those who’ve attempted suicide routinely report that the impulse/thought occurred no more than an hour prior to the behavior, and 24% say those thoughts happened only 5 minutes before the behavior.
- It’s commonly reported that feelings of regret/second guessing/and an immediate change in perspective occur in the moments immediately following a suicide attempt. In fact 90% of those who survive a suicide attempt don’t go on to later die by suicide.
- In the majority of cases (over 70%), removing highly lethal methods of planned suicide does not result in another method being used.
It seems pretty clear to me that safe storage of firearms can save lives. And safe storage shouldn’t be news to anyone who’s learned Colonel Cooper’s Four Universal Rules of Safe Firearm Handling:
1. All guns are always loaded (Even if they’re not, treat them as if they are).
2. Never let a gun point at anything you don’t intend to shoot, kill, or destroy.
3. Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are on target and intend to fire.
4. Be sure of your target plus what is around, and behind, it.
The values imparted by these rules extend to keeping ourselves safe from suicide. If you’re struggling, talk to a professional. Have a conversation about firearm safety, and make sure that they know what you consider safe, and what you don’t. Be willing to listen to why they may be approaching safety a little differently, and understand that any changes they suggest do not have to be permanent, but they may be exactly what’s needed in that moment.
And remember, in a moment of crisis you can always reach out to the Military and Veteran Crisis Line at [login to see] . Press 1 to reach a Military/Veteran responder.
For anyone who wants to find help in their area, there is a treatment locator available here https://rly.pt/VCLresources
You can also text them as well, just text 838255
So, bottom line up front, a mental health professional (psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, marriage and family therapist, etc.), your primary care doctor, really anyone in the healthcare field, cannot legally remove, or have your firearm removed. Only law enforcement personnel has the authority to make that decision and take action on it (unless you’re on a military installation in which case you’re subject to the policies of that installation and Service regarding privately owned firearms). In fact, even in most states with Extreme Risk Protection Orders, medical or mental health professionals are not legally able to initiate the firearm removal process, it has to come from the individual, a family member, or the police themselves.
One of the pillars of behavioral and medical care is patient confidentiality—healthcare providers are legally and ethically bound to protect their patient’s privacy, with just a few exceptions involving life-threatening circumstances. Unless you state that you’re in imminent danger of harming yourself or someone else, what you say during a medical appointment must stay in that appointment. Military providers are bound to those same rules, with the exception that commanders may receive information about a Service member’s fitness for duty, and there is a formal process for how and what information can be shared. Thus, a behavioral health provider cannot reach out to the police with concerns about your firearms, except in those extreme situations where they feel that danger is imminent. Doing so, outside of those emergency situations, would violate federal Privacy Act and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) requirements.
So, why does this myth persist? I think that, in part, this is because we’ve all heard a story where someone’s firearms may have been removed…but it’s likely that there are nuanced details of those situations that aren’t always appreciated. The other piece is that it’s common practice for a behavioral health provider to ask a Service member or Veteran, pretty bluntly, if they own a firearm or have access to them. That question has a very specific purpose regarding risk assessment for suicide. But because it can sometimes be asked without much context as to ‘why’ it’s being asked, it can seem kind of threatening.
What’s likely to happen if you say “yes” to that question? Well, the provider is most likely going to ask some follow up questions like whether you practice safe firearm ownership behaviors, if you have had recent thoughts about harming yourself or someone else, and where you keep your firearm (in a safe/lockbox/locked up or not) and how you store it (loaded/unloaded). Talking about these things will not result in you losing your firearm, but it will likely result in a conversation about your safety. The provider may even ask you to spend some time creating a plan for how to minimize the chances that your firearm will be used to end your own life. This is a collaborative process, and you have a say in everything that goes into that safety plan.
Safety is an interesting word in this context and can mean totally different things for the firearm owner than what the healthcare provider is intending. Typically, when a behavioral health provider talks about firearm safety, we’re talking about the use- and storage- of firearms in a manner with the lowest likelihood of accidental or intentional self-harm.
And the reasons why are pretty clear. Seventy percent of all Veteran suicides occur from self-directed use of a firearm. The same is true in about 65 percent of military suicides, and 50 percent of civilian suicides. In Washington State, for example, 78% of all firearm related deaths in any given year are suicides. Further, we know some really important pieces of information about suicide:
- 71% of those who’ve attempted suicide routinely report that the impulse/thought occurred no more than an hour prior to the behavior, and 24% say those thoughts happened only 5 minutes before the behavior.
- It’s commonly reported that feelings of regret/second guessing/and an immediate change in perspective occur in the moments immediately following a suicide attempt. In fact 90% of those who survive a suicide attempt don’t go on to later die by suicide.
- In the majority of cases (over 70%), removing highly lethal methods of planned suicide does not result in another method being used.
It seems pretty clear to me that safe storage of firearms can save lives. And safe storage shouldn’t be news to anyone who’s learned Colonel Cooper’s Four Universal Rules of Safe Firearm Handling:
1. All guns are always loaded (Even if they’re not, treat them as if they are).
2. Never let a gun point at anything you don’t intend to shoot, kill, or destroy.
3. Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are on target and intend to fire.
4. Be sure of your target plus what is around, and behind, it.
The values imparted by these rules extend to keeping ourselves safe from suicide. If you’re struggling, talk to a professional. Have a conversation about firearm safety, and make sure that they know what you consider safe, and what you don’t. Be willing to listen to why they may be approaching safety a little differently, and understand that any changes they suggest do not have to be permanent, but they may be exactly what’s needed in that moment.
And remember, in a moment of crisis you can always reach out to the Military and Veteran Crisis Line at [login to see] . Press 1 to reach a Military/Veteran responder.
For anyone who wants to find help in their area, there is a treatment locator available here https://rly.pt/VCLresources
You can also text them as well, just text 838255
Edited 6 mo ago
Posted 6 mo ago
Responses: 38
The safe thing to do is never answer the question. Period. It is no ones business if you own weapons legally. Perhaps one of the reasons guns are used in suicide is they are an available means to use. Do we really think that those determined to kill themselves will not find a way?
I have seen the recent ads from the Department of Veterans Affairs on "safe weapons" and they are complete BS. Keeping a weapon unloaded and locked away and the ammo stored in a different location than the weapon makes paper weights out of them.
This is merely another avenue in the "safety" screed hurled out by society today. I prefer liberty over safety.
I have seen the recent ads from the Department of Veterans Affairs on "safe weapons" and they are complete BS. Keeping a weapon unloaded and locked away and the ammo stored in a different location than the weapon makes paper weights out of them.
This is merely another avenue in the "safety" screed hurled out by society today. I prefer liberty over safety.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
You preferably a party over safety. Please think about that for a moment. Does my liberty to drive drunk out where your liberty to not be run over by me? Does my liberty a free speech outweigh weigh yours right to safety when I’m standing in front of your child cussing and threatening to rape them? I am not in favor of extreme gun control i.e. take everything from everybody but I do believe in the past majority of American believes that we can find a reasonable balance. Your liberty to carry gun does not overcome the courts concern for safety and you can’t take your gun into a quart room. You’re right to To Liberty does not overcome the societies right to feel safe If a person is seeking medical help and he / she is judged to be a true danger to the community the mental health person is required to report it the police will not take his guns into a court authorizes it that is the say he should get a fair hearing and be able to tell his side of the story. Remember just because it’s his side of the story doesn’t make it true it makes it his side of the story
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LT William Kunkle
by the time you realize there is an intruder, open a safe with the gun, go to another room to get ammo locked up, load the weapon...he's already stolen your wide screen TV, raped your spouse and kidnapped your kid. Leftie's gun safety is ridiculous
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SFC Christopher Dunlap
MSgt Allen Chandler - Your comments hurt my brain trying to decipher what you were saying. How someone makes it to the rank of Master Sergeant when they speak/type on about a 6th grade level is astounding. I would hate to read the NCOER’s you had to write for your subordinates.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
SFC Christopher Dunlap - I'm sorry for the damage to your brain. Are use a text to type Computer program To put information in Because his disabilities I developed Well I was earning my rank. If my typing in grammar on my only problem is That I think I'm doing pretty good. If you have something that you disagree That I'd be glad to hear it.
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The "myth" persists because it is not a myth, but something that actually happens to too many gun owners who seek mental health assistance.
I have had two friends who have lost their firearms rights due to the (well intentioned, but misguided) interventions of mental health professionals.
In one case, a friend who had recently had his first child, and whose wife was suffering extreme post partum depression was at the end of his rope and called a suicide hotline during a moment when he felt completely overwhlemed. He never threatened to shoot himself or anyone else, but was asked about guns and ammunition in his home.
The next day, he called me to come and remove his ammunition (he was already storing his target gun in my safe, because he didn't own a safe and had a baby in his house), and the Sheriff's deputies arrived while I was there to search the house for firearms and ammunition - having been called by the mental health people. He later had me handle the sale of his firearm, because he was told that, due to his "mental health issue" (a bad day, when he called a hotline because he was embarrased to talk to friends about his problems), he would have to go to court and have a judge decide whether or not he could own firearms in the future.
Another friend, a former coworker, came with me and a group of friends to do some causal traget shooting, followed by a picnic lunch at the range complex. During lunch, she told me that this was the first good day she had had in weeks, because she was going through a brutal divorce, and her husband (emotionally abusive) was constantly telling her what a terrible person she was, etc. and she felt like a failure and a terrible human. This is one of the best teachers I have ever worked with - a woman who inspired her students everyday, and who showed love and care for kids from terrible home-situations. Her ex's constant attacks caused her to think she was worthless, incapable, and drove her into a severe depression (she was in therapy, but not on medication). She told me that the focus and attention she had to use to hit the target while shooting took her mind off of what was going on with her ex, allowed her to feel in control, and allowed her to enjoiy the day with the group.
When she shared this with her therapist, he told her that she could not be around guns, or gun owners, and threatened to get the police involved if she was to continue to go shooting.
So, no, the mental health professional doesn't personally take the guns away, but they can send the police to do it.
These incidents both happened in California, so may have played out differently in states that are more rational.
I have had two friends who have lost their firearms rights due to the (well intentioned, but misguided) interventions of mental health professionals.
In one case, a friend who had recently had his first child, and whose wife was suffering extreme post partum depression was at the end of his rope and called a suicide hotline during a moment when he felt completely overwhlemed. He never threatened to shoot himself or anyone else, but was asked about guns and ammunition in his home.
The next day, he called me to come and remove his ammunition (he was already storing his target gun in my safe, because he didn't own a safe and had a baby in his house), and the Sheriff's deputies arrived while I was there to search the house for firearms and ammunition - having been called by the mental health people. He later had me handle the sale of his firearm, because he was told that, due to his "mental health issue" (a bad day, when he called a hotline because he was embarrased to talk to friends about his problems), he would have to go to court and have a judge decide whether or not he could own firearms in the future.
Another friend, a former coworker, came with me and a group of friends to do some causal traget shooting, followed by a picnic lunch at the range complex. During lunch, she told me that this was the first good day she had had in weeks, because she was going through a brutal divorce, and her husband (emotionally abusive) was constantly telling her what a terrible person she was, etc. and she felt like a failure and a terrible human. This is one of the best teachers I have ever worked with - a woman who inspired her students everyday, and who showed love and care for kids from terrible home-situations. Her ex's constant attacks caused her to think she was worthless, incapable, and drove her into a severe depression (she was in therapy, but not on medication). She told me that the focus and attention she had to use to hit the target while shooting took her mind off of what was going on with her ex, allowed her to feel in control, and allowed her to enjoiy the day with the group.
When she shared this with her therapist, he told her that she could not be around guns, or gun owners, and threatened to get the police involved if she was to continue to go shooting.
So, no, the mental health professional doesn't personally take the guns away, but they can send the police to do it.
These incidents both happened in California, so may have played out differently in states that are more rational.
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PO2 David Ball
And have your weapons seized!!! After all there is still no such thing as free lunch nor medical care!!
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CPT (Join to see)
My response: "Absolutely not! I see too many people every day that need killin to own one." ;)
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