Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Army)
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Army)
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Hello, looking for some feedback if possible! I've been going through the process for application to OCS, and I'm very eager to make it past the boards, but I'm unsure of my chances.
Info: No prior service, 25 years old, 99 CAT-ASVAB, 145 GT, 134 GM, 137 EL, 145 CL, 122 MM, 140 SC, 136 CO, 137 FA, 134 OF, 141 ST. I'm a 6'6 male and in moderately good shape (slightly skinnier at 208-210 lbs),will be able get into great shape in 4/5 months.
I just graduated from Rutgers New Brunswick(Main Campus) with a B.S. in Computer Science. However, my weakest point by far is that my GPA is extremely low at a 2.62. I started out in college not knowing what I wanted to do and was pushed into bio by my parents and... didn't work out until I switched majors.
I have 4 years experience as an Assistant manager at a very busy local mom-and-pop Italian restaurant, and I also work part time as Chief Editor and IT Consultant at my dad's photography business. I have 300+ hours volunteered at the American Cancer Society, but those were all during high school. For LOR's, I have 2 professors who are writing one, and one of them is also a CS research scientist at Cornell. Besides that, I'm getting one from my old manager at the Italian restaurant, and I know the Police Chief and Mayor a little from volunteering at the town food pantry, so I hope at least one of them will write a LOR(I don't know any commissioned officers).
So yea, it seems from looking around that my GPA will hold me back a lot. My recruiter says it's fine since it's a STEM degree from a good school, but I'm not sure if he's just trying to not make me feel bad.
(Aiming for Active Duty Signal or MI btw)
Info: No prior service, 25 years old, 99 CAT-ASVAB, 145 GT, 134 GM, 137 EL, 145 CL, 122 MM, 140 SC, 136 CO, 137 FA, 134 OF, 141 ST. I'm a 6'6 male and in moderately good shape (slightly skinnier at 208-210 lbs),will be able get into great shape in 4/5 months.
I just graduated from Rutgers New Brunswick(Main Campus) with a B.S. in Computer Science. However, my weakest point by far is that my GPA is extremely low at a 2.62. I started out in college not knowing what I wanted to do and was pushed into bio by my parents and... didn't work out until I switched majors.
I have 4 years experience as an Assistant manager at a very busy local mom-and-pop Italian restaurant, and I also work part time as Chief Editor and IT Consultant at my dad's photography business. I have 300+ hours volunteered at the American Cancer Society, but those were all during high school. For LOR's, I have 2 professors who are writing one, and one of them is also a CS research scientist at Cornell. Besides that, I'm getting one from my old manager at the Italian restaurant, and I know the Police Chief and Mayor a little from volunteering at the town food pantry, so I hope at least one of them will write a LOR(I don't know any commissioned officers).
So yea, it seems from looking around that my GPA will hold me back a lot. My recruiter says it's fine since it's a STEM degree from a good school, but I'm not sure if he's just trying to not make me feel bad.
(Aiming for Active Duty Signal or MI btw)
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Army)
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Posted 3 mo ago
Responses: 9
Since the question is what I consider a "I'm having a bit of anxiety about this process, can you give me reassurance that I'm going to make it", I'll speak to the overall acceptance rate.
There is about a 65% acceptance rate for OCS for new enlistments. If you were doing the option to become a physician, then you probably would have issues, but as MSG (Join to see) said, your GPA should be fine for the general course.
If you want your choice of branch coming out of OCS, then focus on doing well. The accessions choices will be rank ordered with those higher on the Order of Merit List (OML) being given preference over those lower.
I'll tell you up front that you need to focus on two-things.
You will have a LOT of new stuff thrown at you and you need to embrace being flexible and adapting to a new environment. You're going to go from college and be thrown into Basic Combat Training (BCT). You'll be going from your "I'm the master of my own destiny" college life to a highly controlled, "do what I tell you when I tell you! When I tell you to go get your bags I want you to bring them here. WHY ARE YOU MOVING RAHUL!?!?" environment.
There's a term in the Army we all learn at a very early stage (it takes the Air Force about 10 or so years ☺) - "embrace the suck!"
If you're flexible and have a positive attitude, that's half the equation for doing well. If you have an attitude of "who do they think they are telling me to do that", you're not going to have a good time and may even fail out of the program. Last word on that - when it comes to your drill sergeants, "You're wrong, they're right". Learn it. Embrace it. Internalize it. The only time I would say there might be a modification to that is if there is something that is unsafe that the DI is not aware of - then mention it to the DI, but after that it's back to "You're wrong, they're right".
BCT is actually not that strenuous if you're physically in shape. That's the second piece of advice - get in shape NOW. Everything you do on the front end will make OCS easier for you. There will be a LOT of physically demanding stuff. You better learn to love running (that mindset thing again) and endurance training.
In fact, if there was one physical thing I would focus on, it's a toss-up between those two, so I would put them together and say long-distance running. However, work on getting into that "great shape" you said you could do in 4-5 months. You may not have that long before BCT and some of the demands are pretty grueling if you've never done them before (12 mile ruck march with 45lb ruck? 4 mile run at the pace of a 9 minute mile?)
Learn what to expect on the ACFT (https://www.army.mil/acft/). Read the details of each event, read the FAQs, and watch the videos. If you do nothing else, train for the event - not only is it a more holistic approach to physical fitness (as opposed to the old APFT), but you'll have multiple ACFTs during BCT/OCS.
After BCT, then you'll go to OCS. More of the same, but now the focus is your ability to work as part of a larger group. This is where the OML is determined. Rank high on the OML and you'll have your choice of branch. Rank low and you get what's left. Multiple things go into the OML - peer-evals, ACFT, performance on exams, etc. If you're grade on something you can be assured it's going to be part of the OML.
I'm 99% sure they haven't changed it in the last few years, so you'll have peer-evaluations during OCS. They do three during the course and this is your fellow candidates ranking everyone else in the class. Yes, it's partly a popularity contest, but more it's about your ability to work in a group and support others. You won't believe how many people have the mindset of "I'm going to do well - screw the others".
Make connections with others in your OCS class. Offer support and help them if you can, especially if it's something you're good at. Have a class member that is having trouble physically and you're in great shape? Offer to be their personal trainer. If you're great at history and others are having issues with military history, offer to help tutor. Bottom line - you're part of a group and do what you an to support the group.
Even if the peer-evals weren't part of the OML (they are), that is the mindset you'll have to adopt going forward to be a successful leader. It's not about YOU, it's about the all of the Soldiers in the group you are leading. Sure, there are times in your military career when it is all about you, but those are generally the exception, not the rule.
Last bit of advice - if you don't know how to do land navigation, either be a quick study, or prep yourself now. There are many free resources on the internet that can help. Use them to become at least familiar with what you're going to encounter.
Good luck!
There is about a 65% acceptance rate for OCS for new enlistments. If you were doing the option to become a physician, then you probably would have issues, but as MSG (Join to see) said, your GPA should be fine for the general course.
If you want your choice of branch coming out of OCS, then focus on doing well. The accessions choices will be rank ordered with those higher on the Order of Merit List (OML) being given preference over those lower.
I'll tell you up front that you need to focus on two-things.
You will have a LOT of new stuff thrown at you and you need to embrace being flexible and adapting to a new environment. You're going to go from college and be thrown into Basic Combat Training (BCT). You'll be going from your "I'm the master of my own destiny" college life to a highly controlled, "do what I tell you when I tell you! When I tell you to go get your bags I want you to bring them here. WHY ARE YOU MOVING RAHUL!?!?" environment.
There's a term in the Army we all learn at a very early stage (it takes the Air Force about 10 or so years ☺) - "embrace the suck!"
If you're flexible and have a positive attitude, that's half the equation for doing well. If you have an attitude of "who do they think they are telling me to do that", you're not going to have a good time and may even fail out of the program. Last word on that - when it comes to your drill sergeants, "You're wrong, they're right". Learn it. Embrace it. Internalize it. The only time I would say there might be a modification to that is if there is something that is unsafe that the DI is not aware of - then mention it to the DI, but after that it's back to "You're wrong, they're right".
BCT is actually not that strenuous if you're physically in shape. That's the second piece of advice - get in shape NOW. Everything you do on the front end will make OCS easier for you. There will be a LOT of physically demanding stuff. You better learn to love running (that mindset thing again) and endurance training.
In fact, if there was one physical thing I would focus on, it's a toss-up between those two, so I would put them together and say long-distance running. However, work on getting into that "great shape" you said you could do in 4-5 months. You may not have that long before BCT and some of the demands are pretty grueling if you've never done them before (12 mile ruck march with 45lb ruck? 4 mile run at the pace of a 9 minute mile?)
Learn what to expect on the ACFT (https://www.army.mil/acft/). Read the details of each event, read the FAQs, and watch the videos. If you do nothing else, train for the event - not only is it a more holistic approach to physical fitness (as opposed to the old APFT), but you'll have multiple ACFTs during BCT/OCS.
After BCT, then you'll go to OCS. More of the same, but now the focus is your ability to work as part of a larger group. This is where the OML is determined. Rank high on the OML and you'll have your choice of branch. Rank low and you get what's left. Multiple things go into the OML - peer-evals, ACFT, performance on exams, etc. If you're grade on something you can be assured it's going to be part of the OML.
I'm 99% sure they haven't changed it in the last few years, so you'll have peer-evaluations during OCS. They do three during the course and this is your fellow candidates ranking everyone else in the class. Yes, it's partly a popularity contest, but more it's about your ability to work in a group and support others. You won't believe how many people have the mindset of "I'm going to do well - screw the others".
Make connections with others in your OCS class. Offer support and help them if you can, especially if it's something you're good at. Have a class member that is having trouble physically and you're in great shape? Offer to be their personal trainer. If you're great at history and others are having issues with military history, offer to help tutor. Bottom line - you're part of a group and do what you an to support the group.
Even if the peer-evals weren't part of the OML (they are), that is the mindset you'll have to adopt going forward to be a successful leader. It's not about YOU, it's about the all of the Soldiers in the group you are leading. Sure, there are times in your military career when it is all about you, but those are generally the exception, not the rule.
Last bit of advice - if you don't know how to do land navigation, either be a quick study, or prep yourself now. There are many free resources on the internet that can help. Use them to become at least familiar with what you're going to encounter.
Good luck!
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Additional comments.
OK, I came in from the enlisted side, so I already had OSUT and a 11B MOS, plus I had been in Infantry Squad for two years. The advantage is that I was in great shape, I was good at land nav. and I had seen what the leadership in an Infantry Company is supposed to do, at least from the bottom. Get in shape, pick up a manual on land navigation and the organization of an Infantry Company. That will put you ahead of most of your peers.
My GPA wasn't much better than yours. I've always been of the opinion that the 4 year degree is just a box to check and I agree with the Col. and MSG that the ASVAB scores carry more weight unless things are very competitive. Coming from the ranks, I had evaluations for the two years I was in the squads and recommendations from the Company and Battalion leadership, which I feel carried more weight than my degree.
How you are evaluated. According to the last OCS Candidate I spoke with, the system hasn't changed much in the almost 40 years since I went through. I kind of divided it into three areas, Army stuff, academics, and leadership/peer evaluations. Army stuff is passing the PT test, making weight, not falling out on the runs or ruck marches, and weapons qualifications. The academics are just what it sounds like and there is a lot of subjects that the throw at you very quickly. I never thought that they were hard, but it is a matter of keeping up with all the assigned reading. Read the syllabus, do the practice questions and read the pages listed in the syllabus.
I don't know how they weight leadership these days, but in my experience, it was how the TACS grade you in your assigned positions and your peer evaluations. My only advice is do your job, support your chain of command and help the weaker members.
Last item. OCS isn't fun and TAC Officers are not Drill Sergeants. I frankly disliked all of my TAC's and didn't have a lot of respect for them. However, they do control a big part of your destiny in OCS. I just decided they were a test on my way to my goal and treated it accordingly.
Oh, I tied for Top Candidate.
OK, I came in from the enlisted side, so I already had OSUT and a 11B MOS, plus I had been in Infantry Squad for two years. The advantage is that I was in great shape, I was good at land nav. and I had seen what the leadership in an Infantry Company is supposed to do, at least from the bottom. Get in shape, pick up a manual on land navigation and the organization of an Infantry Company. That will put you ahead of most of your peers.
My GPA wasn't much better than yours. I've always been of the opinion that the 4 year degree is just a box to check and I agree with the Col. and MSG that the ASVAB scores carry more weight unless things are very competitive. Coming from the ranks, I had evaluations for the two years I was in the squads and recommendations from the Company and Battalion leadership, which I feel carried more weight than my degree.
How you are evaluated. According to the last OCS Candidate I spoke with, the system hasn't changed much in the almost 40 years since I went through. I kind of divided it into three areas, Army stuff, academics, and leadership/peer evaluations. Army stuff is passing the PT test, making weight, not falling out on the runs or ruck marches, and weapons qualifications. The academics are just what it sounds like and there is a lot of subjects that the throw at you very quickly. I never thought that they were hard, but it is a matter of keeping up with all the assigned reading. Read the syllabus, do the practice questions and read the pages listed in the syllabus.
I don't know how they weight leadership these days, but in my experience, it was how the TACS grade you in your assigned positions and your peer evaluations. My only advice is do your job, support your chain of command and help the weaker members.
Last item. OCS isn't fun and TAC Officers are not Drill Sergeants. I frankly disliked all of my TAC's and didn't have a lot of respect for them. However, they do control a big part of your destiny in OCS. I just decided they were a test on my way to my goal and treated it accordingly.
Oh, I tied for Top Candidate.
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Rahul M
I am astounded with the quality and breadth of advice you gave sir, and I'm very grateful for your time. I don't have an over-inflated ego (first-generation son of Asian parents) so I'm confident I can be flexible and adapt quickly to the environment. That being said, through work experience and college experience I am quick to take on leadership roles, so I will do my very best to apply that to OCS.
For the PT, I was lifting 5/6 days a week for about a year prior to the Fall 2023 semester, where I had to spend significantly more time on schoolwork because of the course load. I was taking 4 computer science courses and a research writing class at the same time, so I didn't have any time to train (or sleep!). Since I have graduated, aside from the job search and studying for interviews, I have significantly more time to hit the gym, so I will be focusing recomping with a little cardio mixed in and when I gain back a few pounds of muscle after the first month (I dropped 10 pounds in the 6 months I stopped working out) I will switch focus to cardio and endurance. I've looked through the AFCT a bit, so I will train to do my best on that.
As for the advice you gave while in OCS, I will ensure that I do my best to lift up my fellow classmates. I agree that a true leader is one that facilitates the success of those around them, not necessarily just the center of attention.
I need to research Land-Nav as well... I've heard a bit about it and it seems a little intimidating! But, I will focus on the current priority first, getting past the OCS boards.
Thank you so much for feedback. I really appreciate it, sir.
For the PT, I was lifting 5/6 days a week for about a year prior to the Fall 2023 semester, where I had to spend significantly more time on schoolwork because of the course load. I was taking 4 computer science courses and a research writing class at the same time, so I didn't have any time to train (or sleep!). Since I have graduated, aside from the job search and studying for interviews, I have significantly more time to hit the gym, so I will be focusing recomping with a little cardio mixed in and when I gain back a few pounds of muscle after the first month (I dropped 10 pounds in the 6 months I stopped working out) I will switch focus to cardio and endurance. I've looked through the AFCT a bit, so I will train to do my best on that.
As for the advice you gave while in OCS, I will ensure that I do my best to lift up my fellow classmates. I agree that a true leader is one that facilitates the success of those around them, not necessarily just the center of attention.
I need to research Land-Nav as well... I've heard a bit about it and it seems a little intimidating! But, I will focus on the current priority first, getting past the OCS boards.
Thank you so much for feedback. I really appreciate it, sir.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Rahul M - I think a lot of Land Nav is being comfortable in the woods/outside and being situationally aware of your surroundings. Pick up the Field Manual (FM) 3-25-26 Map Reading and Land Navigation. Depending on how much time you end up having before Basic Combat Training, check with Orienteering Clubs in your area. Nothing helps learning like doing it.
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Your GPA should be fine, especially when the Board sees your GT and other Line scores.
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Just keeping pushing and you should be ok. Your GPA isn't the best but that would be more of a factor for a specialty pipeline like Nursing or Doctor. Rutgers is a well known school so that is in your favor. Should be fine. Just work on your PT
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