Posted on Apr 26, 2016
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Well, it's off to Federal Court for a new round of appeals.
Colorado Supreme Court won't hear Lakewood baker discrimination case
Posted from denverpost.com
Law
Justice
Politics
Human Rights
Religion
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 11
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To all the people here saying it is your right to deny service to LBGT community because your bible says so. You're being hypocrites. You hide behind your bible when it is beneficial to you. You won't deny service to divorced people, you won't deny service to men who shave their beard (levictus 21:5)
So people, please stop hiding behind your bible and say it out loud. Its not because of the bible that you don't accept lbgt, it's because they freak you personally out. Things that are different freak you out.
So people, please stop hiding behind your bible and say it out loud. Its not because of the bible that you don't accept lbgt, it's because they freak you personally out. Things that are different freak you out.
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LTC David Brown
COL Ted Mc - The point is in choosing to sacrifice their lives for others they didn't shun those different from them.
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COL Ted Mc
LTC David Brown - Colonel; They were treating sick people. They had probably been sick themselves. That means that the sick people were NOT all that different from themselves.
The point here is that it was NOT ONLY "American Christian Missionaries" who were treating the Ebola patients. The secondary point is that the "American Christian Missionaries" who were treating Ebola patients weren't even the majority of the people who were doing so.
The point here is that it was NOT ONLY "American Christian Missionaries" who were treating the Ebola patients. The secondary point is that the "American Christian Missionaries" who were treating Ebola patients weren't even the majority of the people who were doing so.
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LTC David Brown
I give up, before Mother Thersea of India all kinds of people were treating the untouchables... Oh well. Can you document who was treating Ebola patients besides the Christians.
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COL Ted Mc
LTC David Brown - Colonel; Nice try.
However, you can't actually "win" by deleting the word "Missionaries" from "Christian Missionaries" and still claim to be making the same point that it was the "Christian Missionaries" who were on the forefront of the fight.
The "First Responders" to the Ebola outbreak came from the World Health Organization which IS NOT a "Christian" organization. However, while I will grant that there were probably "Christians" amongst the WHO personnel, that does not make them "Christian Missionaries".
"At its peak, MSF employed nearly 4,000 national staff and over 325 expat staff to combat the epidemic across the three countries." [ http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/our-work/medical-issues/ebola ]
Possibly you were misled by the headline in "Christianity Today" that read "Ebola Medical Missionaries Named Time's Person of the Year" and didn't bother to read the actual article in "Time" - I mean why waste your time reading something in the lying, left-wing, socialist, commie, so-called "Mainstream", media when you can get **T*H*E** **T*R*U*T*H** from Christians?
You also (probably) don't know that one of the main partners in the fight against the Ebola outbreak was Cuba - which is one of those "Godless Communist" countries [ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/10/04/in-the-medical-response-to-ebola-cuba-is-punching-far-above-its-weight/ ]
Please note that I AM NOT saying "There were NO "Christian Missionaries" who treated Ebola patients.". What I AM saying is "The fight against Ebola was ONT one fought solely (or even in a major part" by 'Christian Missionaries'.".
You don't have to LIKE reality for it TO BE reality.
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/one-year-report/who-response/en/
However, you can't actually "win" by deleting the word "Missionaries" from "Christian Missionaries" and still claim to be making the same point that it was the "Christian Missionaries" who were on the forefront of the fight.
The "First Responders" to the Ebola outbreak came from the World Health Organization which IS NOT a "Christian" organization. However, while I will grant that there were probably "Christians" amongst the WHO personnel, that does not make them "Christian Missionaries".
"At its peak, MSF employed nearly 4,000 national staff and over 325 expat staff to combat the epidemic across the three countries." [ http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/our-work/medical-issues/ebola ]
Possibly you were misled by the headline in "Christianity Today" that read "Ebola Medical Missionaries Named Time's Person of the Year" and didn't bother to read the actual article in "Time" - I mean why waste your time reading something in the lying, left-wing, socialist, commie, so-called "Mainstream", media when you can get **T*H*E** **T*R*U*T*H** from Christians?
You also (probably) don't know that one of the main partners in the fight against the Ebola outbreak was Cuba - which is one of those "Godless Communist" countries [ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/10/04/in-the-medical-response-to-ebola-cuba-is-punching-far-above-its-weight/ ]
Please note that I AM NOT saying "There were NO "Christian Missionaries" who treated Ebola patients.". What I AM saying is "The fight against Ebola was ONT one fought solely (or even in a major part" by 'Christian Missionaries'.".
You don't have to LIKE reality for it TO BE reality.
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/one-year-report/who-response/en/
If contracted, Ebola is one of the world’s most deadly diseases. It is a highly infectious virus that can kill up to 90 percent of the people who catch it, causing terror among infected communities.
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I posted earlier about Muslim bakers refusing to bake cakes for gay weddings, why do they get a pass? Because the media are pushing s story line against Christians. http://louderwithcrowder.com/hidden-camera-gay-wedding-cake-at-muslim-bakery/
HIDDEN CAMERA: Will Muslim Bakeries Make a Gay Wedding Cake?
Watch what happens when Crowder goes undercover in Dearborn, MI to see if Muslim bakeries will make his gay wedding cake. HILARIOUS intolerance and...
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COL Ted Mc
LTC David Brown - Colonel; Was there an ACTUAL refusal of service?
[HINT - No.]
Should there be a prosecution if there is an ACTUAL refusal of service?
[HINT - Yes.]
Does someone "get a pass" if they aren't prosecuted because they didn't actually break the law?
[HINT - No.]
Would "You know, I'm really uncomfortable taking your order for that because of my religious convictions. I'll do it if you REALLY want me to (and even though I would think that you are a VERY unthinking, uncaring, and unfeeling person for insisting that I do something that I find religiously and personally repugnant) but I'm sure that we'd both feel better if you had someone else do it for you." get a better reaction than "I don't do no wedding cakes for fags."?
[HINT - Yes.]
Would ANYONE who has been the butt of perceived disrespectful treatment by others who don't have the same beliefs/feelings as they do be likely to understand the long version and take their business elsewhere WITHOUT being "shocked and offended"?
[HINT - Yes.]
[HINT - No.]
Should there be a prosecution if there is an ACTUAL refusal of service?
[HINT - Yes.]
Does someone "get a pass" if they aren't prosecuted because they didn't actually break the law?
[HINT - No.]
Would "You know, I'm really uncomfortable taking your order for that because of my religious convictions. I'll do it if you REALLY want me to (and even though I would think that you are a VERY unthinking, uncaring, and unfeeling person for insisting that I do something that I find religiously and personally repugnant) but I'm sure that we'd both feel better if you had someone else do it for you." get a better reaction than "I don't do no wedding cakes for fags."?
[HINT - Yes.]
Would ANYONE who has been the butt of perceived disrespectful treatment by others who don't have the same beliefs/feelings as they do be likely to understand the long version and take their business elsewhere WITHOUT being "shocked and offended"?
[HINT - Yes.]
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LTC David Brown
Well you can watch the video. If he refuses to talk to the guy or take the order that is refusal of service..(hint)
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If you are engaged in business and serve "the public" you can't discriminate. That means you can't pick and choose who you serve based on your own beliefs.
Turning away a same sex couple is no different than turning away an interracial couple.
Turning away a same sex couple is no different than turning away an interracial couple.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Daniel Starrett - You do not know me, do not presume to tell me what I believe. I am a Christian, but my God teaches love and understanding.
And frankly the 'plausible deniability' defense does not help your case. I am a little surprised, or maybe disappointed, that you cannot see how someone else could claim a religious excuse to not serve an African American and why if one is wrong both are wrong.
(and BTW, you may want to replace your keyboard. The caps lock button gets stuck often.)
And frankly the 'plausible deniability' defense does not help your case. I am a little surprised, or maybe disappointed, that you cannot see how someone else could claim a religious excuse to not serve an African American and why if one is wrong both are wrong.
(and BTW, you may want to replace your keyboard. The caps lock button gets stuck often.)
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PFC Daniel Starrett
SSG (Join to see) - I never once claimed to know what you believe; and I have gone back over my posts to make sure there was nothing to indicate that I did.
However, you have opened the door yourself into this next bit by stating you are a Christian and your God teaches love and understanding. While it is true that Christ teaches both of those qualities, they are far from the only thing He teaches. He also teaches about damnation, and the fact that you have to do more than just pay lip service in order to be forgiven of your sins. For example, you can not go out and kill someone, then the next day go "Lord, I am sorry for the murder I committed yesterday, please forgive me." and expect to be forgiven. You have to truly be repentant IN YOUR HEART (and no, my caps button was not locked by accident, I intentionally held the shift button down in order to emphasize that particular set of words).
Our Lord expects us to follow His commandments, no matter what. He specifically states there will come a time that you are persecuted for following my commandments, but stand strong, because this is only your physical body. If you stand strong and do as I command, your body may perish, as all bodies do, but your soul will live on in eternity with me.
The quote I gave above:
1 Timothy 5:22
22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
This is a direct command from YOUR GOD (seeing as you call yourself a Christian) to not take part in the sin of others and to keep yourself pure. This means, do not participate in the sin(s) that others commit. The bible also states that for a man to sleep with a man, is an abomination. An abomination, by definition is something that goes against Nature, or against God's will. If you go against god's will, you are committing a sin. Thus, by KNOWINGLY, providing something that would go for the celebration of something that is a sin, makes you a participant in that sin as well.
But let's look at it from a more Earthly stand point at the moment. Let's say you witnessed me walk up and kill someone in cold blood. You decide to not only not call the police or do anything to cause me to be arrested, you throw me the keys to your car, thinking that if you give me your car and I leave, nobody else will be hurt. Do you think this means you are a victim and not responsible? We both know the law dictates that you would be an accessory to murder after the fact. I am going to go out on a limb and say that I believe you agree this is actually the way it should be too. Am I right? That you SHOULD, under those circumstances, be held as an accomplice? Ok, well God has given His law that dictates you are not to assist in someone else's sin. If you ignore that law and assist someone else in sinning, don't you think that makes you an accomplice there as well?
Think on it ;-)
However, you have opened the door yourself into this next bit by stating you are a Christian and your God teaches love and understanding. While it is true that Christ teaches both of those qualities, they are far from the only thing He teaches. He also teaches about damnation, and the fact that you have to do more than just pay lip service in order to be forgiven of your sins. For example, you can not go out and kill someone, then the next day go "Lord, I am sorry for the murder I committed yesterday, please forgive me." and expect to be forgiven. You have to truly be repentant IN YOUR HEART (and no, my caps button was not locked by accident, I intentionally held the shift button down in order to emphasize that particular set of words).
Our Lord expects us to follow His commandments, no matter what. He specifically states there will come a time that you are persecuted for following my commandments, but stand strong, because this is only your physical body. If you stand strong and do as I command, your body may perish, as all bodies do, but your soul will live on in eternity with me.
The quote I gave above:
1 Timothy 5:22
22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
This is a direct command from YOUR GOD (seeing as you call yourself a Christian) to not take part in the sin of others and to keep yourself pure. This means, do not participate in the sin(s) that others commit. The bible also states that for a man to sleep with a man, is an abomination. An abomination, by definition is something that goes against Nature, or against God's will. If you go against god's will, you are committing a sin. Thus, by KNOWINGLY, providing something that would go for the celebration of something that is a sin, makes you a participant in that sin as well.
But let's look at it from a more Earthly stand point at the moment. Let's say you witnessed me walk up and kill someone in cold blood. You decide to not only not call the police or do anything to cause me to be arrested, you throw me the keys to your car, thinking that if you give me your car and I leave, nobody else will be hurt. Do you think this means you are a victim and not responsible? We both know the law dictates that you would be an accessory to murder after the fact. I am going to go out on a limb and say that I believe you agree this is actually the way it should be too. Am I right? That you SHOULD, under those circumstances, be held as an accomplice? Ok, well God has given His law that dictates you are not to assist in someone else's sin. If you ignore that law and assist someone else in sinning, don't you think that makes you an accomplice there as well?
Think on it ;-)
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COL Ted Mc
PFC Daniel Starrett - Private; Well, as long as you are content to be wilfully blind and feel that that satisfies your obligation NOT to support something that your religion tells you is sinful then I suppose that that's OK.
SSG (Join to see) - Staff; Romans 12:17 "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men." pretty much covers the ground although there are some committed and sincere Christians out there who believe that ALL Muslims should be killed on the basis that SOME people who say that they are Muslims MIGHT harm even a single American.
I do find some difficulty reconciling Romans 12:17 with that attitude.
SSG (Join to see) - Staff; Romans 12:17 "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men." pretty much covers the ground although there are some committed and sincere Christians out there who believe that ALL Muslims should be killed on the basis that SOME people who say that they are Muslims MIGHT harm even a single American.
I do find some difficulty reconciling Romans 12:17 with that attitude.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Daniel Starrett - As to the 1 Timothy 5:22, no one is asking you to attend their wedding (which wouldn't be a sin in any case) or to participate in anything. Re-read Matthew 18:21-35.
I won't post it all but here is the punchline.
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
BLUF: The Lord God has forgiven you. You are required to forgive everybody.
Next try Matthew 25:41-46.
Again, just the punchline.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now nuts and bolts. Your example of the cold blooded murder is a logical fallacy, maybe two. It is a perfect straw man, and also a non-sequitur. Murder is a crime against society (no man is an island), what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is between them and God.
I won't post it all but here is the punchline.
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
BLUF: The Lord God has forgiven you. You are required to forgive everybody.
Next try Matthew 25:41-46.
Again, just the punchline.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now nuts and bolts. Your example of the cold blooded murder is a logical fallacy, maybe two. It is a perfect straw man, and also a non-sequitur. Murder is a crime against society (no man is an island), what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is between them and God.
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