Posted on Apr 6, 2017
More Drill Instructors Accused of Hazing to Face Court-Martial
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It is difficult to understand how this crap continues to happen. But maybe not... way back in 73-76, I knew SDI's, Series Gunny's & Chief Drill Instructors who were highly regarded by the supervising officers, yet would haze and violate the Recruit Training SOP, and what was worse, taught & required the same of the DI's under their command under penalty of bad evaluations, fitreps & reputations in the battalion. And yes, I was in 3rd Bn as a prive and a DI.
More Drill Instructors Accused of Hazing to Face Court-Martial
Posted from military.com
Marines
Discipline
Crime
Court Martial
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 20
13
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It has always happened. I was there in 1981 and hazing was in style. Some minor, some not. If you want people that can stand up to the rigors of combat and the privation that come with it, training needs to prepare them for that or weed out the weak. Nothing done on Parris Island will come anywhere near what you could suffer in combat or months of deployments to combat areas or worse yet, capture by the enemy.
If you want to see PTSD levels continue to climb keep letting those that cannot handle any mental stress or adversity into the ranks. People have to be mentally tough not just physically fit. I don't know how you get mentally tough people without putting them through mental stress and hardship that hazing and other forms of adversity can do. As long as it is not excessively harsh or will injure the recruit I am not sure what the concern is.
You need to weed out the weak, you cannot do that without real pressure and adversity. If recruits know nothing can be done to them, that there is zero risk to their general well being how might that effect their mindset about training?
You also need to define hazing. Not everyone defines it the same. I am sure there is some sort of textbook definition of it that if we followed to the letter we would graduate boy scouts not Marines.
If you want to see PTSD levels continue to climb keep letting those that cannot handle any mental stress or adversity into the ranks. People have to be mentally tough not just physically fit. I don't know how you get mentally tough people without putting them through mental stress and hardship that hazing and other forms of adversity can do. As long as it is not excessively harsh or will injure the recruit I am not sure what the concern is.
You need to weed out the weak, you cannot do that without real pressure and adversity. If recruits know nothing can be done to them, that there is zero risk to their general well being how might that effect their mindset about training?
You also need to define hazing. Not everyone defines it the same. I am sure there is some sort of textbook definition of it that if we followed to the letter we would graduate boy scouts not Marines.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
I had never heard of Clorox and ammonia thing. That would definitely cross the line. That doesn't even qualify as hazing, that is attempted murder.
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SPC Jimmy Rooks I
CWO3 (Join to see) Shy away from "abusing recruits"(sic) and they'll never survive first contact with the enemy!
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SPC Jimmy Rooks I
1stSgt Eugene Harless that actually produces chlorine gas, one of the most common chemical weapons used during WWI!
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MSgt George Cater Throwing a recruit in a dryer should not happen. When I went through Boot Camp in 1968, there was a lot of abuse and hazing. Boot Camp is not suppose to be fun or easy. The training that I received in Boot Camp and AIT helped prepare me for Vietnam. You have a fine line between hazing and training Marines to handle the challenges that they will face.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
Sgt Theodore M. Hallock, Yes Sir you are correct. There is a big difference between abusing behavior and hazing. With all the time to teach these young recruits how to survive, we don't need to fry them too. Over the years we had this type of incidents and it sometimes over looked by Everyone. But again look to our Society as a whole picture along with constant deployments and combat operations I can only imagine what's going. through that recruits mind and especially his DI's.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
SP5 Christine Conley - Sorry Christine, but you have no idea what you are saying. Marines receive tactical training, as does any combat arm, but hazing has nothing to do with tactics. Hazing is about mental conditioning for the extreme violence and terror of combat. You can have the best tactical training in the world, but if your mind is not conditioned to operate when you are scared out of your mind, you will not use it effectively. Marines make Marines. No one outside of that circle knows what it takes.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
SP5 Christine Conley - Yes, a certain amount is vital to making Marines. No, I don't think they should put someone in a dryer, or make people do anything that involves potentially mixing bleach and ammonia, because those things are not hazing, they are criminal because they are a direct threat to the recruits life. Getting your feelings hurt because they made fun of how you or look, or disparage some group you belong to, isn't actually harmful, unless you are weak-minded and then it will work it's purpose of weeding you out. It is meant to upset you, even make you angry so you learn to shut it down. The hazing in Marine Corps boot camp is definitely at a higher level than the other services because it needs to be. Look, anyone who joins the Corps should have known what they were getting into, or just quit if they can't hack it. This isn't the Cub Scouts where everyone is included and gets a badge for showing up to elevate their self-esteem. This is a life-and-death business that we are running and this is what it takes to make Marines. Yeah I get that the other branches don't use it as much, but they have different missions and because they don't use it doesn't mean it isn't necessary in this case. The Army has a basic-training light for crying out loud! They don't even make every soldier have the same basic training experience. It's like the difference between training a flagger and training a guy to run the jackhammer. You have to be tougher to run the jackhammer, and if you can't take it, go be the flagger.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
If you are not a Marine, NO ONE EXPECTS YOUR TO GET IT!! So just go about your lives and stop hand-wringing over what Marines do to train Marines. If it's truly too stressful and difficult, then we would wash out everyone instead of the 40% that get washed out now.
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The answer is if this method can not be used to test the mettle of our fighting force, make it easier to discharge those substandard recruits. They are easily identified. Good luck when they reenter civilian life where you can really be harassed, and fired if you complain.
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1stSgt Eugene Harless
Agreed, this is something I was told as a Young DI and later on told my subordinate SNCOS and NCOS. You cant teach a pig to sing and you cant polish a turd.
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