Posted on Nov 10, 2017
Veterans and policy experts call for more immigrants and Dreamers in U.S. military
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This article is misleading and not telling the story accurately. It also leaves out a lot of information.
In addition NBC News needs to check the credentials of their writers and editors. How in the world could the following statement have made it into publication, especially in an article like this:
"Margaret Stock, a retired U.S. Army Reserve lieutenant and colonel and former West Point Military Academy professor, noted that the armed forces' current citizenship criteria is negatively impacting the military's recruitment options."
And then later in support of the recommendation Stock goes on to state: "Stock added these circumstances would all change if Congress were to reform current immigration policies.
"If Congress were to enact comprehensive immigration reform, it'd make it easier for people to get green cards." Stock added. "This would open up an extraordinarily large pool of folks in the U.S. population who would then be eligible for military service.""
I am sorry, but that statement is just not true.
In addition NBC News needs to check the credentials of their writers and editors. How in the world could the following statement have made it into publication, especially in an article like this:
"Margaret Stock, a retired U.S. Army Reserve lieutenant and colonel and former West Point Military Academy professor, noted that the armed forces' current citizenship criteria is negatively impacting the military's recruitment options."
And then later in support of the recommendation Stock goes on to state: "Stock added these circumstances would all change if Congress were to reform current immigration policies.
"If Congress were to enact comprehensive immigration reform, it'd make it easier for people to get green cards." Stock added. "This would open up an extraordinarily large pool of folks in the U.S. population who would then be eligible for military service.""
I am sorry, but that statement is just not true.
Veterans and policy experts call for more immigrants and Dreamers in U.S. military
Posted from nbcnews.com
Military service
Recruiting
Immigration
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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My wife was an immigrant when she was very young, now she is a citizen and a veteran. I would love the opportunity to sit and speak with the powers that be on this subject. I will just say I have worked with and for many great Americans over the years who started their lives as citizens of somewhere else. They all busted their ass to become citizens, loved their new Country and yes many fought for it. Including my wife, she is a gorgeous, brilliant bad ass. Just saying!
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SSG Robert Webster
LTC Jeff Shearer Yet those are not the ones making the most noise. Notice how so many of those (outside the ranks of the DACA recipients) that are making the most noise are those that either squandered their opportunity, or did not try to take the opportunity until it was too late.
I agree with your sentiment about your wife. Though my wife did not serve in the military, she is an immigrant that became a US citizen when it suited her and not on anyone else's time line. And we have three wonderful children none of which have desired to serve in the Armed Forces, but that is their decision and not mine or anyone else's for that matter.
I agree with your sentiment about your wife. Though my wife did not serve in the military, she is an immigrant that became a US citizen when it suited her and not on anyone else's time line. And we have three wonderful children none of which have desired to serve in the Armed Forces, but that is their decision and not mine or anyone else's for that matter.
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The ‘Up-Or-Out’ Promotion System Hurts The Military
A broken system leads to careerism and costs the military valuable people, knowledge, wisdom, and experience.
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Suspended Profile
What, precisely, do you believe is not true with what you quoted?
It's quite accurate. The Army -barely- met its Active Duty mission late year, and missed the Reserve mark. Expanding the pool of possible applicants would by definition expand recruiting options.
Americans don't want to serve in the military. Demonstrated through constant polling, and pure Recruitment numbers. Simple reality. Those that -do- want to serve do so predominately for free college and healthcare...two of the biggest selling tools.
Between someone who loves this country and wants to EARN their place in it through service, or a kid who just wants the benefits and doesn't give a damn about service...I'd much, much rather see the former.
It's quite accurate. The Army -barely- met its Active Duty mission late year, and missed the Reserve mark. Expanding the pool of possible applicants would by definition expand recruiting options.
Americans don't want to serve in the military. Demonstrated through constant polling, and pure Recruitment numbers. Simple reality. Those that -do- want to serve do so predominately for free college and healthcare...two of the biggest selling tools.
Between someone who loves this country and wants to EARN their place in it through service, or a kid who just wants the benefits and doesn't give a damn about service...I'd much, much rather see the former.
SSG Robert Webster
SGT Sean Goodrow As far as recruiting goes, I am sure that you are a great salesman. However, that does not mean that you know what you are talking about.
Even during a period when there was an effective draft, to include periods of relative peace, the US Military has historically had difficulties with recruiting people. Even during periods of initial outbreak when there is a very large numbers of people volunteering meeting the numbers requested has even been difficult. And that does not just apply to the US Military.
And as far as the main crux of the article, it is a piece predicated upon propaganda of individuals in support of illegal alien amnesty and other under the table incentives for people who have broken the law to gain possible US Citizenship. As far as the numbers go - they are the same whether it is an American Citizen, legal immigrant alien, or illegal alien - the same number percentage wise have the same eligibility AND have the same want to serve. Giving a criminal a waiver is the same (underneath) whether it is an American citizen or an illegal alien.
Also, as a recruiter did you not have problems meeting quota during the drawdown, I know that you did, or you were not a recruiter during that period. Even in historically easy areas for recruiters, they had problems meeting quota.
And tell me, how many females have you convinced to enter the field of Infantry? How many want Infantry, or how many potential recruits want Infantry? How many of those potential recruits want a STEM MOS field? How many of them meet the ASVAB scores to select those MOSs? And of course what are you as a recruiter telling them, join the military, the government will pay for your college, recommend that they pursue a STEM related degree, but then they get stuck being a cook, clerk (personnel or otherwise), maybe a mechanic, or something else since they don't meet the scores, or there is no current or near future opening for them, or they face such a long period of waiting even if they meet the qualifications that they become discouraged and quit for something else.
And one last item - it seems as though no one that is promoting this really understands or knows why there is a citizenship requirement after a certain period of time. I would suggest that you find out for yourself as to the actual reasons behind it. I will also give you a clue -think about treaties and the Laws of Land Warfare.
Even during a period when there was an effective draft, to include periods of relative peace, the US Military has historically had difficulties with recruiting people. Even during periods of initial outbreak when there is a very large numbers of people volunteering meeting the numbers requested has even been difficult. And that does not just apply to the US Military.
And as far as the main crux of the article, it is a piece predicated upon propaganda of individuals in support of illegal alien amnesty and other under the table incentives for people who have broken the law to gain possible US Citizenship. As far as the numbers go - they are the same whether it is an American Citizen, legal immigrant alien, or illegal alien - the same number percentage wise have the same eligibility AND have the same want to serve. Giving a criminal a waiver is the same (underneath) whether it is an American citizen or an illegal alien.
Also, as a recruiter did you not have problems meeting quota during the drawdown, I know that you did, or you were not a recruiter during that period. Even in historically easy areas for recruiters, they had problems meeting quota.
And tell me, how many females have you convinced to enter the field of Infantry? How many want Infantry, or how many potential recruits want Infantry? How many of those potential recruits want a STEM MOS field? How many of them meet the ASVAB scores to select those MOSs? And of course what are you as a recruiter telling them, join the military, the government will pay for your college, recommend that they pursue a STEM related degree, but then they get stuck being a cook, clerk (personnel or otherwise), maybe a mechanic, or something else since they don't meet the scores, or there is no current or near future opening for them, or they face such a long period of waiting even if they meet the qualifications that they become discouraged and quit for something else.
And one last item - it seems as though no one that is promoting this really understands or knows why there is a citizenship requirement after a certain period of time. I would suggest that you find out for yourself as to the actual reasons behind it. I will also give you a clue -think about treaties and the Laws of Land Warfare.
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Suspended Profile
You haven't cited a single study, a single statistic, you've made this purely personal. Not a good way to make a point. This just makes you come across as angry and arguing with pure emotion, rather than...making a reasoned point.
"As far as the numbers go - they are the same whether it is an American Citizen, legal immigrant alien, or illegal alien - the same number percentage wise have the same eligibility AND have the same want to serve."
This is absolutely, provably, not true. You need to cite your source. For all of this, actually...or even one claim.
This is all pulled from thin air, and I think you know it.
"As far as the numbers go - they are the same whether it is an American Citizen, legal immigrant alien, or illegal alien - the same number percentage wise have the same eligibility AND have the same want to serve."
This is absolutely, provably, not true. You need to cite your source. For all of this, actually...or even one claim.
This is all pulled from thin air, and I think you know it.
SSG Robert Webster
SGT Sean Goodrow - "As far as the numbers go - they are the same whether it is an American Citizen, legal immigrant alien, or illegal alien - the same number percentage wise have the same eligibility AND have the same want to serve."
This is absolutely, provably, not true. You need to cite your source. For all of this, actually...or even one claim.
This is all pulled from thin air, and I think you know it.
Did not pull it from thin air. Secondly, you as a recruiter should have the information directly available to you.
And actually having been a High School teacher while on active duty and had to evaluate students various scores for various different types of test to include physical fitness test, I know from personal experience what the numbers are and how they correlate.
As far as some of the other stuff goes - try this on for size; 11 person section has only 4 or 5 of authorized personnel - that is not a study, that is personal experience, and by the way it was like that for several years.
And as far as qualifications go, how many or your recruits take or attempt to take the ASVAB multiple times, no matter their status?
This is absolutely, provably, not true. You need to cite your source. For all of this, actually...or even one claim.
This is all pulled from thin air, and I think you know it.
Did not pull it from thin air. Secondly, you as a recruiter should have the information directly available to you.
And actually having been a High School teacher while on active duty and had to evaluate students various scores for various different types of test to include physical fitness test, I know from personal experience what the numbers are and how they correlate.
As far as some of the other stuff goes - try this on for size; 11 person section has only 4 or 5 of authorized personnel - that is not a study, that is personal experience, and by the way it was like that for several years.
And as far as qualifications go, how many or your recruits take or attempt to take the ASVAB multiple times, no matter their status?
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SSG Robert Webster
SGT Sean Goodrow - Here is what the article at the top of this discussion stated - "“The Center for Naval Analysis estimated in 2015 that only 13 percent of 17 to 24 year olds in the U.S. are qualified and available to serve in the military,” Ma said.
This statistic means only 136,000 teenagers and young adults — or just .4 percent — would be “willing and qualified to serve,” according to the paper."
I would note that "qualified and available to serve" is not the same as "willing and qualified to serve."
I would suggest that you read and digest the information at the following links. Though it is based on information that is 5+ years old, it actually points out how the article shared at the head of this discussion is agenda driven and bottom line propaganda.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/whos-joining-the-us-military-poor-women-and-minorities-targeted/43418/
https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=http://www.mintpressnews.com/whos-joining-the-us-military-poor-women-and-minorities-targeted/43418/&httpsredir=1&article=1002&context=soc
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/22/women-in-the-u-s-military-growing-share-distinctive-profile/
And I would highly suggest that you as a recruiter read and apply the information in the following article that is 10 years old; https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2007/08/09/military-widens-door-for-dropouts/
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2008/01/23/upi-newstrack-topnews-drop-in-us-army-recruits-wit/
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2011/military-recruitment-2010/
And I highly suggest that you read the following article - http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/31/uncle-sam-wants-who/
This statistic means only 136,000 teenagers and young adults — or just .4 percent — would be “willing and qualified to serve,” according to the paper."
I would note that "qualified and available to serve" is not the same as "willing and qualified to serve."
I would suggest that you read and digest the information at the following links. Though it is based on information that is 5+ years old, it actually points out how the article shared at the head of this discussion is agenda driven and bottom line propaganda.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/whos-joining-the-us-military-poor-women-and-minorities-targeted/43418/
https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=http://www.mintpressnews.com/whos-joining-the-us-military-poor-women-and-minorities-targeted/43418/&httpsredir=1&article=1002&context=soc
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/22/women-in-the-u-s-military-growing-share-distinctive-profile/
And I would highly suggest that you as a recruiter read and apply the information in the following article that is 10 years old; https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2007/08/09/military-widens-door-for-dropouts/
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2008/01/23/upi-newstrack-topnews-drop-in-us-army-recruits-wit/
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2011/military-recruitment-2010/
And I highly suggest that you read the following article - http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/31/uncle-sam-wants-who/
Who’s Joining the US Military? Poor, Women and Minorities Targeted
(MintPress) - Be all that you can be. That’s the slogan of the U.S. Army, and when its uttered, the picture that likely springs to mind is one of a young,, British, Carissa Wyant, College, Defense, Department of Defense, Discrimination, Foreign Affairs, freedom, Iraq, Military, National, New York, Opinion, School, test, US, War, Women,
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