Atheist Debates - Appeals to Faith

Faith is in fact active.

Why rule out the Bible? It is the most well-attested book ever written.

As for outside evidence of Jesus, Josephus is an outside source. Why doesn't he count?

"Outside of the first-hand written accounts, extant documentation, and personal testimony, there is no evidence" doesn't seem to be a good line of reasoning.

I guess Socrates never existed either, then. Who knew?

SGT Mark Halmrast - OK, let's look at each of your claims. First, the Bible is not well-attested. There is significant doubt that the Exodus ever occurred, as there is no evidence that the Jews were ever slaves in Egypt. There was no world-wide flood. It minimizes the pantheon of gods initially worshiped by the Jews. I could go on and on. The Bible does have some historical places, but then again, so do Spiderman comic books.

In one part of Josephus that mentions Jesus, it is the consensus of Biblical scholars that it was a forgery that was added later, likely in the Fourth Century since it did not appear prior to that date. The other mention talks about James, the brother of Jesus, but what is omitted by the apologists is that Jesus was the son of Damneus, not the Jesus son of god.

You don't have first-hand written accounts, either. Scholarly consensus is that the first gospel was penned 40 years after the death of Jesus and the last gospel was 60 years or more later. There is no personal testimony or eyewitness accounts, and the accounts in the Gospels are not compatible with each other, to the point that if one is true, the others cannot be true.

I'm sorry, but you just don't have any good contemporaneous evidence to support your assertion.

Two of Jesus’ biographers, or gospel writers, were with Jesus for the entire period of His ministry (John and Matthew). Those are first-hand, eyewitness accounts of His life.

You have a right to believe as you do, and I respect that. And we all need to acknowledge basic facts, like about the gospel writers. They were first-hand accounts.

Saul graduated first in his class in the top institution at the time – think #1 grad at Harvard to put it in today’s terms. He had a license to beat and imprison Christians and was an accomplice in at least one murder of a Christian.

Then something changed. He went from persecuting Christians – you know, those fishermen and regular Joes who had spun up some story about a messiah named Jesus – to becoming one of them.

Think about that. The most learned and ambitious man in the nation on a mission to extinguish Christianity suddenly throws in with everyday people and becomes Christianity’s most avid defender.

Saul, who changed his name to Paul, suffered for it. He endured the infamous “39 lashings” five times (five!) for not renouncing Jesus. He was imprisoned for the same, and was ultimately beheaded outside of Rome.

What happened to Saul that his life’s aim would change? Jesus. That’s what happened. He met Jesus, and his life changed forever.

That same Jesus lives today and offers His life-changing touch today to anyone who is willing to receive it. Pretty amazing. Amazing grace, as the song goes.

Faith – evidence-backed action. Jesus is real. He lived, died, was buried, rose again and lives today. The evidence is overwhelming and beyond reasonable doubt. To put faith in Jesus is as rational an act as stepping on an elevator.

If there was no God, where did this world come from? Said differently, how did something come from nothing? Physically impossible. Metaphysically contrary to reason. It would take blind faith to believe this world came to be absent a Creator. Blind faith. Not something I’m interested in. But like I said, you have every right to believe as you wish.

SGT Mark Halmrast -

- There is no evidence that John or Matthew wrote the gospels that bear their name. It's almost certain that John didn't write it, as that gospel was dated at between 90-120 CE. See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

As to Saul/Paul, I would suggest the following: Landsborough, D. "St Paul and Temporal Lobe Epilepsy." Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry 50.6: 659–664; Bullock, John D. "Was Saint Paul struck blind and converted by lightning?" Survey of Ophthalmology 39.2: 151–160. Occam's Razor prefer's either of those explanations over the supernatural.

As to Jesus living today? He ain't making the news as far as I can tell. Second, it takes no faith to look at the world as not having a creator. There is no evidence to support that after all.

You can, of course, believe anything that you want. But there's no evidence to support your belief as you laid it out here.