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Sgt (Join to see) - He banned or suspended 11 political parties last month that had direct links to Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspends-11-political-parties-with-links-to-russia

"On 1 January 2020, 349 political parties were officially registered"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Ukraine

MSG Stan Hutchison - I don't believe Wikipedia. Not sorry.
And of course he's going to say they have ties to Russia. What other justification does he have to squash his political rivals? That doesn't sound real democratic to me.

Sgt (Join to see) - Better check your sources.

MSG Stan Hutchison - Don't believe yours.

Are you suggesting Zelensky is a proponent for the Nazi Azovs or rather maybe he's using them as tools to take on a larger enemy? At one time the US allied with the Soviet Union to take on the larger force of the Nazi regime if you recall. Working with the enemy of my enemy is sometimes the compromise one has to take. Seems to me that Russia is the more immediate issue at stake right now. What happens if they decide to take on Poland? Then we're in it directly as they are a NATO partner... WWIII. Seems to me that this Nazi group is hardly a reason to ignore an entire nation being invaded by Russia and creating issues from multiple levels with regards to food supply and energy on a global level. Stability is the goal and the reason why we must provide assistance to the Ukrainian people. Should they prove to have designs on creating a master race and initiating multiple genocides of Russian and Jewish people (highly unlikely), I'm all for pulling our support. Otherwise, this "see they have Nazis in their ranks" is no more than Russian propaganda. Propaganda by definition plays on the truth in order to make a misleading point of view. Russians are good at it by the way. They are the ones pushing this Ad Hominem attack against the Ukrainian people.

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin - I'm not saying he's a proponent of their ideology, and I actually understand Nazi history history. But, the Azovs were there long before Russia started their buildup. Zelensky even tried to appoint Serhiy Sternenko as head of their Security Service. His chief of staff confirmed the offer on their Facebook page last year. Sternenko was directly implicated in the 2014 killing of 46 people through his ties with the Nazis in Ukraine, along with several other people that he had issues with, including the fella that insulted him and his wife. Sternenko chased him down the street and stabbed him to death.
I'm always amused when the truth is labeled "Russian propaganda."

I'm always amused when people don't understand that propaganda uses truth, avoiding context and incorporates bias, deception, and/or misleading information in order to push a specific political cause or point of view. Not once have I denied Ukraine has self-proclaimed Nazis in their ranks. I have simply tried to point out the bigger picture and allow people to consider there is very likely an element of ad hominem attacks being perpetrated by Russian information warfare campaigns using propaganda to push their own people (and the world) that their invasion is just. It's not. Nor is Ukraine a country overrun by Nazis.

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin they don’t really care about anything you’ve said. They just want to be anti-something and this is the cause du jour. it’s a little sad how far old men will stoop to be edgy outsiders

Sir,
They may not have in infrastructure to move into a democracy.
I was informed by first hand information the supplies that are from groups like the Red Cross are not making it to the people for free. But into the hands of evil men charging 3 times the rate. There was a video on the Red Cross moving supplies. I'm not sure how much is getting to the innocent. It bothers me.
It is hard to tell what is truth. But are political opponents in house arrest or in jail? I read both.
Thank you for your depth on the topic Maj.

Well, some would say I'm becoming that "get off my lawn" old man, but with age for some, usually comes wisdom. I definitely learned a lot along the way, studying the Soviet/Russian military as a kid (the Cold War ended shortly after I joined the military), serving in the military as a cyber and information warfare expert, and having lived in multiple struggling democracies. As I mentioned, there are parallels to our own country fighting for its right to exist and to be free. As a new nation sure, but let's not forget Ukraine was nothing more than a puppet to the Soviet Empire, not much different than the British and their colonies (in terms of what they think they owned and controlled).

One thing I really got to learn from history and our continued relationship with Russia is that they are major players within the information warfare arena. This war in Ukraine has very little to nothing to do with Ukrainian Nazis and those who push this line are drinking the Russian Propaganda kool aid. It is not much different than Hitler telling the German people that the Russians and the Jews were the root of all their problems. Only, Russia has failed this time to fully get their own people fully onboard with this invasion. Still, the Nazi propaganda resonates with many Russians, which is why Putin used it. The Nazis to Russia strikes a much bigger chord than they ever have to us in the US. Let's not forget that according to their own estimates, 8.7M Russian service members were killed by Nazi Germany in WWII and another 13.6M civilians were killed as well (7.4 due to direct intentional acts of war and 2.1 from the labor camps). However, like many countries to include the US, Germany, and others, yes, there are groups of people in Ukraine who associate themselves as Nazi ideologs (does that mean they have the right to attack us all?). The point is, they aren't running the nation and we must all note the fact that President Zelenski is in fact Jewish, voted into office by the people. The same people who did so after the previous admin refused to make trade deals with western Europe. The people spoke, they wanted a more westernized economy, and they voted the previous President out. Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Russians might actually be behind the corruption or at the least taking great lengths to enable it in their own interests? The US is not innocent from the games being played out there either. IMO, Biden's insistence on them removing one of their prosecutors for a $1B in aid, in the name of "addressing corruption," when he was ironically investigating the corruption of a Ukrainian company associated with the Biden's son, is highly suspect. It's also kind of interesting (and ironic) that the same President on the call with Trump who equivocally insisted he felt there was no quid pro quo initiated by our President, is now being celebrated by the same people on the left who didn't believe him (Zelenski). My, some people have short memories...

The Russians continue to play the Information Warfare game, but such campaigns take time, and they did "prepare the battlefield," if you will, likely thinking everyone would roll over again as we've done in the past. Which is also why we need to stay ahead of it. But to put this into perspective, with regards to why we should help the Ukraine and hopefully one day be partners in trade, military capabilities, and then some... What do we have to lose by providing them indirect military and refugee assistance? I don't want our military deploying there, nor do I think a no-fly zone will help. Stingers, Harpoons, Javelins, and similar, but effective small arms for insurgency operations, is exactly what they need at this time, and I have no problem giving it to them. In the end, I highly doubt we are enabling a new Nazi regime, but regardless of how many of them can be found in Ukraine, that's Ukraine's problem to deal with, if and when all this is done. Just as we have had to deal with our own issues with slavery, the KKK, and civil rights in the past. Enable them to remain free of Russian control, see it through, and then we can go from there. If they start killing off Russian and Jewish people while promoting a master race with threat to conquer the world, our support ends and I imagine eastern Europe would follow suit.

Cpl Mark A. Morris - You're focusing on what very well could be anecdotal information. War is chaos and especially in this one where the Russians are not exactly good at mounting such campaigns when they actually have a resistant force. You don't know if these people are Russian separatists or common criminals taking advantage of a situation. The fact is, our weapons, from what we can tell, have been getting into many o the right hands and are being employed against the invading force.

Again, look at history. In Somalia the aid we provided to the people was getting intercepted by the warlords (i.e. not the government) and hoarded for their own use/profit. During our own revolutionary war there were colonials who sided with the British, spied on us, and even took part in the search and seizure of private property. At some point you have to look at the actions of key people and judge from there. Zelenski has certainly proven he is not afraid (like many deposed leaders I've seen run from a fight), he continues to garner for peace, and he has effectively requested assistance from the west by understanding our own history and challenges.

So again, I have no problem helping them out in the manner we've been doing thus far because I think they have the potential to become better, and I think they are trying to be better. I'll also note that should they in fact become a new democratic nation which can live up to western standards, I'll bet they will want nothing to do with the highly toxic / progressive ideas finding their way into the discord in the US. I can only imagine what the left will think of the Ukraine and Zelenski then.