Posted on Sep 4, 2020
Analysis: Here's the problem for Donald Trump with the Atlantic story — CNN Politics
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Donald Trump
Republicans
Democrats
Election 2020
Posted >1 y ago
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So let's get some named sources.
Otherwise, it is just one of many hit pieces done in the run up to an election.
Otherwise, it is just one of many hit pieces done in the run up to an election.
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The real problem... for everyone in this country now, is that we no longer know what the "truth" is.
I'm a veteran, as was my father, grandfather, and many more before him. Some of us died in defense of our country. I was also a naval officer and even met John McCain once in person... and I was not among the late Senator's most ardent supporters. Taken IN context, I might have any number of disparaging things to say about "some" veterans who use their credentials to push their political ideologies, mask their incompetence, or launch "attacks" on civilian opponents thinking their status will "shield" them from scrutiny. Anyone could reasonably take any such statement OUT of context to portray me as "against veterans". I have to factor this in when attempting to judge the veracity of the allegations made against Trump.
Unfortunately... I also have to factor in the complete possibility that any number of persons or entities might lie to damage Trump's support from his "base".
That said, IF he said these things... he was wrong, and terribly so. There would be no excuse for it. If proven beyond reasonable doubt... such a revelation might even cause me to ardently hope he might have the good grace to resign from the campaign and allow someone even remotely more qualified to take up the GOP nomination. It would not however convince me to vote for the Democrat party, or their nominee.
I'm a veteran, as was my father, grandfather, and many more before him. Some of us died in defense of our country. I was also a naval officer and even met John McCain once in person... and I was not among the late Senator's most ardent supporters. Taken IN context, I might have any number of disparaging things to say about "some" veterans who use their credentials to push their political ideologies, mask their incompetence, or launch "attacks" on civilian opponents thinking their status will "shield" them from scrutiny. Anyone could reasonably take any such statement OUT of context to portray me as "against veterans". I have to factor this in when attempting to judge the veracity of the allegations made against Trump.
Unfortunately... I also have to factor in the complete possibility that any number of persons or entities might lie to damage Trump's support from his "base".
That said, IF he said these things... he was wrong, and terribly so. There would be no excuse for it. If proven beyond reasonable doubt... such a revelation might even cause me to ardently hope he might have the good grace to resign from the campaign and allow someone even remotely more qualified to take up the GOP nomination. It would not however convince me to vote for the Democrat party, or their nominee.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - All good points, though I am not sure I agree on Trump's reputation prior to him running for president. As I understand it, Trump was widely known for shorting contractors that he hired, manipulating the legal system to keep him out of trouble in business (e.g. imminent domain laws, bankruptcy laws, etc.). At times he was unable to secure loans from U.S. banks. But the biggest indicator of who Donald Trump was before he ran for office was the perpetual campaign questioning Obama's citizenship. Now some will claim that was a political dirty trick that originated in the Hillary Clinton camp, and there is truth to that, but long after it had been laid to rest, Trump rode that horse.
The most damning evidence of Trump's character, or lack thereof, are his own words and actions.
The most damning evidence of Trump's character, or lack thereof, are his own words and actions.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Perspective is everything. As a young salesman, what I saw in Trump were the same attitudes and aptitudes that made a successful salesman. When it comes to business, the "law" can be as rapacious as any "Fortune 500" entity... and the lines between what is ethical, and what is "necessary" are thin. In business... profit takes precedence over prudence- so long as it doesn't land you (or your employer) on the losing end of a suit, or in a jail cell. It's not "pretty"... but people who don't understand that don't often last long in that world. Frankly, I was glad to leave it and come back to the public sector... but I didn't leave involuntarily, or because I wasn't "good" at it.
When it comes to politicians, people seem to want results rather than reputations. Reagan enjoyed a "good reputation"... but a lot of dirty things went down on his watch. Supporters of "Dubya" and Obama are fiercely loyal... but can anyone tell me that many of their policies didn't book-end one another; particularly in the Middle East?
If I had to choose someone to vote for based on how "good" of a person they were... I'd be forced to "write in" people I know personally. I vote for who I think will preserve stability and prosperity. However, there's a line to everything, and as of yet... Donald Trump hasn't crossed mine.
When it comes to politicians, people seem to want results rather than reputations. Reagan enjoyed a "good reputation"... but a lot of dirty things went down on his watch. Supporters of "Dubya" and Obama are fiercely loyal... but can anyone tell me that many of their policies didn't book-end one another; particularly in the Middle East?
If I had to choose someone to vote for based on how "good" of a person they were... I'd be forced to "write in" people I know personally. I vote for who I think will preserve stability and prosperity. However, there's a line to everything, and as of yet... Donald Trump hasn't crossed mine.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - I guess we will have to agree to disagree as it appears our mutual perspectives are dramatically divergent. I cannot think of a line Donald has not crossed... and I am hesitant to say that because every day it seems he is crossing lines I never considered a sitting president would cross. Though I suppose it helps if you truly believe he is innocent of the acts he has been accused of committing. I would be inclined to think so as well if I was not aware of efforts to suppress evidence, block testimony, and invoke executive privilege solely for the purpose of protection from prosecution or even scrutiny. An innocent person does not rail against the investigation that would exonerate them.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
MSgt Steve Sweeney - I'd wager we're not all that divergent on matters where the facts are clearly known, and we have direct involvement. As with anything on the national stage, it's ambiguity and ulterior motive that drives suspicion, doubt, and fear.
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It wouldn't matter if the sources were named or not. The Trump cult would still call them liars regardless of who verified or corroborated the story.
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LTC David Brown
There are named sources who were there, some who don’t like Trump, have said it never happened.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
A1C Michael Allen - The word you are looking for is not "collaboration" but "corroboration". The word is specific and means something. Look it up.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
LTC David Brown - Bolton said he didn't hear it. He didn't say Trump didn't say it. A fine line, but there is a difference. Bolton also said if Trump DID say it, it would be despicable. Are there others?
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
A1C Michael Allen - I think you may be hearing wrong. What I said is there is a difference between a person not hearing something and a person not saying something. Bolton saying he didn't hear it doesn't mean he didn't say it. Doesn't mean he said it either, but it certainly doesn't mean he didn't. Capisci?
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