UN documents torture of Gitmo detainee

First of all (and I appreciate your discourse on this), who exactly is "we?" No DoD personnel, civilian or uniformed, were ever trained on or performed waterboarding, EIT or any other techniques that could be described as torture. Corrupt Alphabet Soup Secret Squirrel Shadow Warrior Spooks on the other hand ARE trained in EIT and other "stress" techniques. But, waterbaording and EIT were lawful and approved, and did not fit the internationally accepted definition of torture at the time they were used on "a handful of Gitmo detainees in order to obtain valuable information that saved many lives" (George W. Bush, "Decision Points"). 745+ detainees were RELEASED from Gitmo, and NONE were executed, beheaded, blown up, hacked to death, dragged naked and lifeless through the streets, drowned or burned alive. All things our enemies have done to US and/or our allies. There is no moral comparison between Gitmo and how our enemies treat their captives. Torture is WRONG, no matter who does it, when or why, but there must be agreement on exactly what it is. And the American people deserve to know WHO did it and who DIDN'T do it.

MAJ Montgomery Granger Sir,

"We" is the US. It does not matter if DoD personnel did it. The US did. And even if DoD did not DIRECTLY participate, DoD personnel did FACILITATE.

EIT, to include eaterboarding DID fit the definition of torture, as defined by UN charters, of which the US had signed on.

That torture was never legal. Personnel within the US AG office offered legal opinion memos that authorized it. But it was still illegal. If my Commander authorizes me to steal a car to fulfill a mission, it is STILL theft, and still illegal. *I* may avoid prosecution due to the Commander unionization and the exigent nature. But it is not LEGAL.

In order to be released, they first had to be detained. And the overwhelming majority were held without due process, without bail, without even formal charges. We used the "you are a criminal, not a POW" reasoning to deny protections and privileges of a POW. But then we said "you were at war with us" to dent them protections of a criminal suspect. We held people for YEARS, in some cases DECADES, with no trial, no charges, no justice. Many of these people were held based on nothing more than the IC's say so. Not actual proof, just the IC saying he was a bad guy - with no need to provide that proof to any judge.

Yes, the bad guys did HORRIBLE things. What we did to these detainees was not AS BAD. But that does not mean it was right. He killed 12 guys, I only killed 1 is not a justification. Neither is he killed a guy, I just abused and humiliated him.

Finally, while I cannot speak to Gitmo, DoD uniformed personnel DID torture prisoners during GWOT. Abu Ghraib is documented US personnel - both security personnel and HUMINT collectors - torturing prisoners. In that knstace HUMINTers were driving things, and security "softened up" prisoners at their behest. It is my *belief* that DoD security personnel at Gitmo were equally complicit. I have no specific proof, but I fully believe security personnel, at the direction of IC personnel participated in things like sleep deprivation and temperature manipulation. Even if they did not participate - which I do not believe to be true, but will accept as possible absent proof they did - DoD's hands are not entirely clean here.

Hooah!