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SSgt Christopher Brose
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Edited 8 y ago
I have never been in a firefight, but as a Marine with both training as a rifleman and experience as a range coach, I can say with certainty that you can't hit what you can't see. Not with a rifle anyway.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
8 y
SFC (Anonymous) - All fair points, but in those cases you have to know where the enemy is, and you have to be able to see the aim-point on the cinder block or car. You're not going to spray the area, you're going to concentrate fire.

And as often as not, that involved seeing the enemy at some point immediately prior.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
8 y
SFC (Anonymous) - I could have sworn I wrote something about cover fire and suppressing fire being exceptions to the eyes-on rule. Oh well.

I don't have any quibble with any of the points you are making. Keep in mind my responses were to the question asked in the OP, "Can soldiers see enemy soldiers TYPICALLY, or do they just spray at them and hope?" (Emphasis added).
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SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
8 y
SFC (Anonymous) - I just find it amazing that the Air Force guy is trying to school the Marine. Not even going to touch snipers vs ground troops.
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SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
8 y
SFC (Anonymous) - My bad. When I see SSgt I think Air Force.
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SGT William Howell
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Very interesting. I think it comes down to your typical typical firefight is. There is not one. Are you in a urban, jungle, open, or mountain? Is it day or night? What kind of weapons are you working with? Is it an ambush? I have never been in 2 firefights that were ever the same. I have never "sprayed" anything, but I have put rounds down range it the general direction of the offending fire and they were not what you would call "well placed shots". I believe the amount of time I spent aiming was indirectly proportional to the amount of bullets coming at me to the amount going away from me.

I was always conscious of how many mags I had left after being in a long firefight and realizing we got a shit ton of bullets in the truck and no magazines to put them in. It is rather funny thinking about it now. I was in a long drawn out firefight and we were moving and shooting from cover to cover. At some point me and my battle were red on ammo and headed back to the truck to reload when we realized we didn't have any extra mags. I was shooting and my battle buddy would keep reloading the only 3 mags we had between us. We did that for about 15 minutes (It seemed like hours). After that I always carried a dump pouch. Not every empty mag made it in there, but I would try to save as many as I could. Sorry...rambling.

So as far as spraying goes. It may happen. It may not. It all depends on what Mr. Murphy dishes up at the time, where you are at, where the enemy is at, and any number of a million other things that come into play all at once when the lead starts flying. "The best laid plans all go to shit at first contact."
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
8 y
On the Marine Corps range, one of the stages is 300 yard rapid fire from the prone position. The Marine must shoot 5 rounds from one magazine, change magazines, and fire another 5 rounds... and the Marine must retain the first magazine. It has been long enough that I don't remember what the penalty was for not retaining the magazine, but it was part of the course of fire, part of the training, probably because of stories from the field exactly like yours.
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SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
8 y
SSgt Christopher Brose - So for the last couple months in all the time we have posted and exchanged thoughts I have thought the "SSgt" was Air Force. Not sure why. My bad. As a cop we were taught not to pick up magazines and you would get dinged on the range if the RO caught you trying to pick one up. The whole "train as you fight thing." I carried that over to when I went back in not recognizing most gunfights as a cop last less than 8 seconds. It did not take long to realize 7 mags don't last long in a firefight. I swear by a dump pouch now. Saw ammo bags work great.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
8 y
SGT William Howell - Hahahahaha!!! My rank insignia next to my avatar is orange and gold and similar to the Army's SSG, not blue & white and upside down, that's the giveaway.
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SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
8 y
SSgt Christopher Brose - I'm pretty, not smart.
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GySgt Bill Smith
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Edited 8 y ago
Having been in a couple TICs with enemy forces I would say its a little of both. Of course when you see an enemy target you want to get proper sight picture and alignment and take the shot (but this is not always an option). In Afg and Iraq it felt like we were fighting ghost sometimes, we would take short burst and than that was it, they were gone without seeing anyone. Then you would have the times where the stars aligned and the enemy slipped up and boom you got them literally. But you can use your fire in other ways as well. Like drawing an enemy out, or use it to recon to see if they are still in the area. I would say "spray and prey" could also be called suppressive fire a tactic used to gain power in a fire fight or to break contact. At least us troops put their rifle in their shoulder when doing this but I will say most ill trained army's shoot without looking down the sights.
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