Confederate flag tattoo stops man from joining Marines

SSG Mike Merritt I agree with the goal of developing more objective standards. I do think it will be hard to totally remove judgement from the picture, which is where leadership comes in, but more objective standards definitely seem appropriate here. The article did mention new tattoo regulations should be forthcoming, perhaps there will be more objectivity and clarity in them?

Capt Richard I P. - I probably was setting a good example before you were out of diapers and do NOT need a former O-3 trying to tell me how to act professionally. If you want a civil debate, I have had many of them with good results. But, is someone wants to act like an ass, I can play that game also. Unless there is an AD behind your name, we are all the same on here E-1 through E-9 and O-1 and up. As far as your recommend, try the same for personal use.

MCPO Roger Collins I am aware that you have more experience than I do, which is why it is so disappointing to see the choices you've made. I think our comments to one another reflect pretty clearly on our professionalism, our personal brand, and the example we each set. This is a public (and permanent) forum for the consumption of all SMs, active, retired, or veteran, and everyone has something to learn from everyone else. I stand by the example I've set.

Capt Richard I P. - And, pray tell, what were those poor choices? Really don't give a rat's patoot if you are disappointed or not, I'm quite satisfied with my choices. As evidenced by my profile, I DID rise to the top of the promotional pyramid, which was about 3% during my career in the Navy in 18 years, followed by a civilian career starting at entry level to middle level management in five years. Now very comfortably retired with an income of double the national average. Yeah, I will stick with my decisions.
And nothing is permanent in these forums, sooner or later they go away, and unless someone is extremely anal and saves posts, they do go away permanently. So, tell me, what is the example you set that is so great.

SGT (Join to see) - voting me down because I speak the truth and you know it. Good one...

And I can just as easily come back that since you're a civilian, you no longer have a say in how those of us in the military decide who gets in and who doesn't. The times have changed and you've been left behind.

Anyway, what is the difference between the Nazi flag and the Confederate flag except one you have a personal emotional attachment to and the other you don't?

Seems like someone's a little hurt that their particular symbol of intolerance is...no longer tolerated.

SGT (Join to see) - actually I think the rebel flag is redneck, but that is not my point.

And as for your civilian comment, I still am in and should be pinning SFC this year, so nothing has passed me by. I got off AD this past June due to combat related injury/illness and the birth of my daughter during my last deployment 14/15. I felt that as an Infantry PSG, I couldn't go forward until I got my injuries from combat fixed and could keep moving forward. So i got out. So check yourself.

SSG Mike Merritt - You voted me down first, bro. Anyway, what truth are you speaking of? I already reminded you that the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia is first and foremost a symbol of rebellion against our legally elected federal government over the issue of chattel slavery. Full stop. Anything else is just a comforting lie.

The lie that the Civil War was primarily about states rights withers in the face of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1793 and 1850, laws that violated the rights of the Northern 'free-soil' states by forcing them to not only acknowledge human beings as property, but be complacent in their subjugation. There is no justification for that. And if it wasn't about slavery, then why didn't any free-soil states join the CSA?

Individual temperaments and opinions on both sides varied, Lee was famously abolitionist and Sherman was a vicious racist, but the reasons for the two sides as a whole are made clear. The North went to war to preserve the union, only caring about the slaves about halfway through the war when it was convenient. The South went to war to preserve their 'particular institution' from the very onset.

That is what most of the world is going to see when they see that flag. The nostalgic feelings of a few southerners are irrelevant in the face of the legitimacy of the U.S. Military as a professional force for freedom at home and abroad. When you wear the uniform you represent not just yourself, but the entire United States and everyone who has ever worn a uniform in its name. It is an image issue and a solidarity issue.

Proud of your Southern heritage? Find another symbol.

SGT Richard Blue - How can you say with certainty that it is racist? I have seen those that DO use it to push an agenda of hatred, but I find the raised clinched fist in the air to be racist, do you? Point is there are bigots in every area of civilization, this flag was not intended to be anything about race and there were even black that fought for the Confederacy, which was primarily about states rights.

MCPO Roger Collins - , let me address your first question. You ask, “How can you say with certainty that it is racist?”. I can talk about this matter with a certain amount of authority because I’m a learned individual that fully understands the history of the Confederacy, it’s symbols and America post reconstruction. I remember when the Confederate battle flag was raised over the South Carolina state house in 1961 in opposition of the Civil Rights movement. Do you? I know that 100s of white supremacist and white nationalist hate groups as defined by the Southern Poverty Law Center use the Confederate flag in some type of official capacity. Whether or not a symbol is seen as “racist” is primarily up to the perception of those individuals.

On to your next statement which is at best, slightly off topic. The clinched fist has historically meant black power. There is a big difference between black power and black supremacy. A clinched fist wasn’t the symbol of oppression used during the lynching of 1000s of innocent people, a clinched fist wasn’t the symbol of oppression used against people fighting for integration and equal rights. A clinched fist wasn’t the symbol of oppression used when secessionist tried to rip apart a nation. When oppressors went to war to and listed a critical part for the reasoning as the right for states to dehumanize blacks, a clinched fist was what they showed. It’s your right to see a clinched fist as racist, but history doesn’t back up your claim! The Confederates knew what they were fighting for; the ability to keep the institution of African slavery. The only people that seem to struggle with the facts are modern day revisionist historians.

Below is a link to the different state's Articles of Secession. Feel free to read the exact words of Confederate legislators.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

I read states rights with slavery being one of the points of contention. Absolutely no one in modern times believes slavery was anything but a dark stain on our history. However those that fought for what they believed in is how our nation began. The Confederate Battle Flag has become a target for all that feel that the south are a bunch of redneck racists, yet most of the pain being felt today is in the North where blacks are being held down in government provided ghettos and killing each other with relish. I believe black lives DO matter, as well as all other lives. Most of my life was growing up in Northern Indiana where there were few blacks and I had no opinion regarding what was happening during my formative years, then in the Navy riding on submarines, I slept, ate and worked with all races without exception. If I heard any comments regarding race, it was normally the person of color making jokes about it. The Battle Flag has many meanings to many different people, most that I have encountered since retiring in the South look at it as historical in nature and shows pride in their heritage as Southerners. A few, such as the Democrat originated KKK started using it for nefarious reasons and to get support of the true racists and I am totally with you with your feelings, as I see them, on that.

The use of a symbol by different groups does not mean that symbol automatically becomes the focal point of their cause. That flag is a symbol of the southern states battle flag and those groups are using it as part of an overall idea that they are southern warriors. That does not make the symbol itself racist.

As for the reasons the southern states decided on secession, it had to do with many factors. Yes they use the word 'slave' and 'non-slave' states but this is to just ensure it was clear. They continue on and talk about how the federal government was controlled more by the Northern states and many of the decisions they had made directly hurt the Southern States economically. This is the major reason that the South left the US.