Posted on Aug 18, 2016
Fighting for the ‘Soul of France,’ More Towns Ban a Bathing Suit: The Burkini
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Good, bad or indifferent there are countries to include the US banning clothes and clothing styles. This could be seen as an affront to closely guarded civil liberties. Thoughts? #sagging pants
Fighting for the ‘Soul of France,’ More Towns Ban a Bathing Suit: The Burkini
Posted from nytimes.com
Politics
Pop Culture
Constitution
Terrorism
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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Here in the US we have the Constitution which lets anybody do anything they want if they claim it is for religious purposes. I don't agree with it as people have taken advantage of it. France does not have that. They are basically saying you can conform to the French way of life of get the hell out. If you want to wear burkas then go back to where you are from and wear them there.
It is not how America works, but it is how France works and it is not a bad thing.
It is not how America works, but it is how France works and it is not a bad thing.
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COL Lee Flemming
SGT William Howell great points once again. I would also highlight that clothing in the US is not only a religious, but a civil liberties freedom. In other words my individual rights are protected from unjust government intervention. Interestingly enough the French law went as far as to ban baklavas, helmets, masks and any other face-covering garment, to include burqas.
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1LT (Join to see)
COL Lee Flemming - Sir, I studied that law in law school and it was a huge debate. If you look at it, it doesn't say anything about burkas, Balaclavas (Baklavas are Turkish pastries) but only mention fully covering your face --in public places-- (meaning you can do as you please at home) as it cause some security reasons.
Moreover, if you are found guilty of making somebody else to cover his face because of his or her gender then you will go to jail for one year and pay 30k (double it if a minor is concerned).
Moreover, if you are found guilty of making somebody else to cover his face because of his or her gender then you will go to jail for one year and pay 30k (double it if a minor is concerned).
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COL Lee Flemming
1LT (Join to see) - Law school - awesome! I mentioned it in an earlier post. Glad you all debated it!!
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It bears remembering that if the government can regulate what someone else can wear to meet their religious beliefs, they can regulate what you or I wear that meets our beliefs as well. It's odd that so many conservatives would support the idea of banning clothing because it doesn't show enough skin.
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I am actually in France and this has taken some very unfortunate consequences.. Couple days ago there was a BFM (big f*cking mess) in Corsica following locals taking pictures of Maghrebians women in burkini. Locals were beaten up by those persons then brought back the entire village for revenge and man it went ugly. I have to say that Corsica is not famous for its love of Muslims.
Personally I think it should be forbidden to wear such outfit to the swimming pool for sanitary reasons but don't have anything against people dressed in burkini at the beach.
You have to remember that France has very different regulations toward civil liberties.
Personally I think it should be forbidden to wear such outfit to the swimming pool for sanitary reasons but don't have anything against people dressed in burkini at the beach.
You have to remember that France has very different regulations toward civil liberties.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
I don't think I understand what you're saying about "sanitary reasons" for not allowing this in a swimming pool. People normally wash their swim wear just as they do other clothing, whether it's a speedo or full body cover.
It's curious, though, when we realize that a century ago, laws were directed at women whose swim wear revealed too much of their body, while now they're criticized for not showing enough.
My real question, though, is for those who insist that it's a valid security concern. How many women in burkinis have engaged in terrorist activity at a public beach in France, or, for that matter, anywhere in the world? If the answer is, as i suspect, zero or close to zero, it means the "security concern" is a red herring used to disguise religious prejudice.
It's curious, though, when we realize that a century ago, laws were directed at women whose swim wear revealed too much of their body, while now they're criticized for not showing enough.
My real question, though, is for those who insist that it's a valid security concern. How many women in burkinis have engaged in terrorist activity at a public beach in France, or, for that matter, anywhere in the world? If the answer is, as i suspect, zero or close to zero, it means the "security concern" is a red herring used to disguise religious prejudice.
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1LT (Join to see)
SGT Eliyahu Rooff -In French debate, security concerns are not referring to women wearing burkinis engaging in terrorist activities. That of course is absurd.
Texts prohibiting those outfits go as follows: "beach outfit revealing its owner religious preference while France and its religious symbols are targeted by terrorism could provoke "troubles à l'ordre public" (gatherings, crowds, etc) that we must prevent from happening."
See, where does it blame burkinis for causing terrorism? It's actually preventing terrorist attacks...
Texts prohibiting those outfits go as follows: "beach outfit revealing its owner religious preference while France and its religious symbols are targeted by terrorism could provoke "troubles à l'ordre public" (gatherings, crowds, etc) that we must prevent from happening."
See, where does it blame burkinis for causing terrorism? It's actually preventing terrorist attacks...
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
1LT (Join to see) - I recognize that, but the press releases and statements by officials have almost all referred to security concerns.
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1LT (Join to see)
SGT Eliyahu Rooff - yes, security concerned related to people publicly identifying their religious preference while France has been targeted by terrorists.
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