"If You Want to Look at the Devices of the Devil, You Have to Look at the Democrat Party" - Black...

LCDR Joshua Gillespie - The differences between the Time of Lincoln and now happened immediately following the time of Kennedy, so I'm not sure what, exactly, you are referring to hen you say things have shifted greatly since then. I don't believe "race relation" have ever been stable. The social climate in the inner cities during the '80s was bad, and got progressively worse in the '90s. 2000-2008 were the years of Bush, his illegal war in Iraq, and general pandering to the conservative elite. Politically, socially, I would guess there wasn't much unity then. Segregation is a part of history, but it is not "history". Meaning that it still goes on, despite laws making it illegal, and it is still just as valid as "recent history". Your insistence that we "have come so far" since the Civil Rights movement shows how ignorant you are of how minorities have been treated in this country since the Civil Rights Movement.

SGT Edward Wilcox - With respect, I've not used words such as "ignorant" to describe your points... and I'd appreciate it if you'd give me the same courtesy.

That said, I'll apologize for painting with too broad a brush. All things are relative, and I can't suggest that if personal experiences (growing up in the South) during the 1980s lead me to believe things were FAR better than they were perhaps in the 1950s-60s; that this invalidates what may have been ongoing elsewhere, and for other people. Generally speaking however, it does seem plain to me that with increasing numbers of minorities entering traditionally "all white" careers (including the commissioned ranks of the Armed Forces), high levels of civic government, and becoming "mainstream" in terms of cultural acceptance of desegregation as a whole... one can accurately suggest we've made progress. I personally hold this was due in no small part to a better economy, strong feelings of national security, and a resurgence of national pride. In the mid-1990s, it seemed this waned somewhat... incidents such as the beating of Rodney King being catalysts for increased unrest amid fears of growing international instability (Iraq/Iran/Eastern Europe), and economic recession. Upon entering the Military in the late 90s, and throughout my service in the 2000s... I saw very little of the current atmosphere of disunity. You are of course free to disagree... but to me, there are clear "tides" in terms of "racial tensions", and I maintain our greatest strides have been made when there is a strong economy, strong national defense, and strong sense of working together to improve the system we have, as opposed to working to replace it with something "else".

LCDR Joshua Gillespie - Ignorant - lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.

Ignorance is not the same as stupid. It is not an insult, it is a description of your general lack of knowledge. Get over yourself.

I grew up in a small farming town in the North. I met my first Latino in 5th grade, my first black in Junior High. I lived an extremely sheltered life, racially speaking, until I left for the Army, but even I know that we have to look outside our own experiences to get an accurate view of what is going on. Redlining continued well into the '90s. While minority participation in traditionally "all white" careers grew, it is still smaller than one would expect, given the overall percentage of the population they represent.

Those times you claim we were making "great strides", we were actually just better at hiding the growing inequality.

Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Stupidity is having the same opinion, even after being educated. Which are you?

SGT Edward Wilcox - You've stated your experiences (and opinions), I've stated mine. Their being divergent doesn't invalidate either... so when you call me "ignorant", I would humbly ask you either disprove my point of view with facts, compelling debate, or agree to disagree.

That said, I sincerely appreciate that you've shared your background (it does add weight to your argument); now I'd like to share mine. Please forgive the length of my reply.

I'm the first generation of my family to hold a four-year degree... I owe that in very large part to my parents working endlessly at low-paying jobs and denying themselves everything. My father grew up without parents, and was raised by his grandparents... sharecroppers in West Tennessee. His clothes were often made from old cotton sacks, and he ate many meals from church "soup kitchens." He was sent to juvenile hall as a minor for stealing a pie from the school cafeteria... the Army was his only way out, and he left there an NCO. At seventy-five, he still works everyday; mostly treated like crap by the young, "educated" people who regard him as just an old "coot"... the man who once jumped to commemorate Operation Market Garden in front of the Queen of England. I took a great deal of my early understanding of "race relations" from his stories... stories of how poor blacks and whites, though segregated, often helped one another. Stories of how as a young soldier, he learned a great deal from his African-American non-commissioned officers. I came of age KNOWING that it was a very BIG deal that I had friends at school who were African-American, and that I often saw African-Americans as police officers, teachers, and community leaders. People in my community suspected of being members of the "KKK" were regarded as several steps lower than "white trash".

My first week at the Academy, I was called a "cracker". Jokes about me, "not knowing how to act because I had never had shoes"... or serious inquires from classmates about, "did they have running water where I lived?" were common. There was an "African-American Engineers Society", a predominantly African-American gospel choir, and many of my company officers and senior enlisted instructors were in fact, African-American. The first "notable" personage I ever met as a young Midshipman was Colin Powell... who in a stirring speech, told us all of his own personal journey as an African-American leader.

As a young officer, my division was comprised of more than 93% minorities. I found it "easiest" to connect with those who were both African-American, and from Southern states. We shared common beliefs, fairly common backgrounds... and each knew the other had come a, "long way up" from the past. Both the XO and OPS-O of my ship (as well as about a 1/3 of the officers' mess) were African-Americans.

But the jokes and jibes about being a "hillbilly", a "redneck", or "backward" continued...exacerbated in no small part when my very own President made an off-hand (and doubtlessly less severe than reported) comment about people becoming "bitter" or clinging to, "guns or religion or antipathy". I did NOT feel in that moment that being white and from a working-class background made me "discriminated" against...but I do presume to claim I have some understanding of what it feels like to be marginalized collectively. Neither, it seems to me, are quite the same as my Irish and Scots ancestors being hung or shot while wounded, my Southern-Unionist ancestor dying of dysentery in a CSA prison ... or slaves being whipped, dragged from their loved ones, or killed like so much cattle.

So when I say that we've, "made progress"... I think I have reason to believe it to be true.