Posted on Dec 4, 2019
Jonathan Turley: 'This is wrong,' being mad is no basis for impeachment
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Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 7
Turley's remarks were spot on. He is not a Trump supporter or voter and is not viewed as a partisan by most reasonable people as his three fellow panelists are . They were called witnesses, they witnessed nothing, they were all providing opinions.
Turley gave them plenty of reasons they were/are grossly overstepping and over reaching. They will not listen because they are too far down the path. The democrats must impeach or they risk losing some of their base in the election. They have promised impeachment and they must deliver. They senate will acquit and we all know it. This is simply mental masturbation for the leaders of the democrat party. They have created standards they will live to regret just as Harry Reid did in the senate with the nuclear option.
Turley gave them plenty of reasons they were/are grossly overstepping and over reaching. They will not listen because they are too far down the path. The democrats must impeach or they risk losing some of their base in the election. They have promised impeachment and they must deliver. They senate will acquit and we all know it. This is simply mental masturbation for the leaders of the democrat party. They have created standards they will live to regret just as Harry Reid did in the senate with the nuclear option.
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SSG (Join to see)
That is all this whole thing has been opinion, and if you call only people with the same opinion and do not allow the accused to counter with his own people then it is a farce.
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I disagree with Prof Turley regarding compelling evidence of a crime. I believe that, at this point, we have ample evidence of President Trump obstucting justice. Regardless of whether the Ukraine scandal qualifies as criminal (I do not think it does - or at least would not be provable as criminal, because intent is really hard to pin down), or he is recieving emouluments (which is certainly criminal as it violates the Supreme law of the land) or he colluded with Russia (which I do kot think he did DIRECTLY, and this again causes prosecutorial problems). Regardless of any of that, it is relatively obvious to me that he has both threatened and cajoled (I won't go as far as "bribed" but I won't argue anyone who does) witnesses, he has orderdd witnesses not to testify, and he has intentionally withheld subpeonaed evidence.
I, personally, disagree with obstruction of justice being declared a "high crime or misdemeanor" (as I did with Clinton), but I recognize that it IS criminal, and (from what I have seen) President Trump has met the minimum threshhold for that charge.
I do NOT disagree with the good Professor's thesis, however. Being mad isn't enough. You need evidence of an ACTUAL crime. Not just poor judgment, being mean, or abusing the office (excepting such abuse as meets a criminal standard, of course) - all of which Trump has displayed. All of which upset (and disappoint) me. All of which has me seriously considering voting Democrat for President for the first time in my life. None of which has me calling for his forcible removal prior to completion of his term.
I, personally, disagree with obstruction of justice being declared a "high crime or misdemeanor" (as I did with Clinton), but I recognize that it IS criminal, and (from what I have seen) President Trump has met the minimum threshhold for that charge.
I do NOT disagree with the good Professor's thesis, however. Being mad isn't enough. You need evidence of an ACTUAL crime. Not just poor judgment, being mean, or abusing the office (excepting such abuse as meets a criminal standard, of course) - all of which Trump has displayed. All of which upset (and disappoint) me. All of which has me seriously considering voting Democrat for President for the first time in my life. None of which has me calling for his forcible removal prior to completion of his term.
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CPT Jack Durish
Obstruction of justice has long been recognized as a high crime, especially among those charged with the administration of justice (and the President is the chief law enforcement officer of the land). In England, the Common Law basis of much American law, it is known as perverting the course of justice. However, I see no evidence of obstruction. Refusal to cooperate with your persecutors/prosecutors is a Constitutional right (see 5th Amendment).
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SFC Casey O'Mally
CPT Jack Durish I understand that *is* considerred a high crime, I just don't personally agree with it. Especially as it applied in the Clinton case. (To a lesser extent in this case.)
Threatening and cajoling witnesses is obstruction. Ordering your subordinate to disobey a subpoena is obstruction. Asking (or ordering) a witness to lie is obstruction. We have some evidence, although not entirely clear, of each of these actions. We have clear evidence of some of them. I have no doubt in my mind that a fair and impartial grand jury (which the House is not) would have no problem finding enough evidence to charge or that a fair and impartial trial jury (which the Senate is not) would find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. Now, this being impeachment, the rules are a bit different, and the bar is a bit higher (as it should be, IMHO). But were this a "normal case," any competent lawyer would be recommending a plea bargain, IMO.
Threatening and cajoling witnesses is obstruction. Ordering your subordinate to disobey a subpoena is obstruction. Asking (or ordering) a witness to lie is obstruction. We have some evidence, although not entirely clear, of each of these actions. We have clear evidence of some of them. I have no doubt in my mind that a fair and impartial grand jury (which the House is not) would have no problem finding enough evidence to charge or that a fair and impartial trial jury (which the Senate is not) would find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. Now, this being impeachment, the rules are a bit different, and the bar is a bit higher (as it should be, IMHO). But were this a "normal case," any competent lawyer would be recommending a plea bargain, IMO.
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So when is the time to impeach a president? What political crime must he commit to be impeachable offense? This professor loves talking about his family and dog being mad but fail to tell is why it is okay to ask a foreign gov’t to investigate or give the perception of investigating a domestic political rival.
Don’t b*tch when future presidents and politicians feel this now green lights asking foreign governments for similar favors.
Don’t b*tch when future presidents and politicians feel this now green lights asking foreign governments for similar favors.
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MAJ James Woods
I just watched a clip of this guy giving testimony during Clinton impeachment. Apparently he felt lying about having a consensual affair was impeachable then yet today hearing multiple testimony of asking a foreign government for an investigation into a political rival is not. This guy isn’t very consistent on what he deems impeachable.
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