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SSG Military Pay Technician
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Glad that they are bringing back land nav and instilling more discipline.
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SGT Dick Johnson
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Interesting read. I know that when I compare what I experienced in BCT vs what my son-in-law experienced a couple of years ago they are as different as night and day. I am a firm believer in strict discipline in BCT. You need to know how to carry yourself as a soldier and how to respect those NCOs and officers appointed over you. Iron sights....absolutely. Optics will fail. Glad to see that the Army is re-evaluating this important training.
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SPC Training Room Nco
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I truly hope that it actually goes through and works this time. Not sure how to feel about land nav and grenades though. Every soldier should be competent in those tasks, and they are in the SMCT Level 1. Land nav bothers me more because its out-and-out contradictory. They dismiss land nav because we have GPS, BFT etc, but then they turn around and say that ironsight qualification is essential (they aren't wrong, but that's not the point) -- why?-- because technology will inevitably fail eventually. So don't you think we should keep focus on manual navigation and not allow it to fade into obscurity simply on the premise that we have technology to replace it?

I don't know. I'm kinda conflicted on this whole thing. Good share and an interesting read, Sir!
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SSG Recovery Vehicle Supervisor
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SPC (Join to see) What TRADOC is saying is that they won’t need to find 3/5 points on a Land Nav course or throw live hand grenades past a certain radius to graduate. Training will still be conducted because each training builds upon another. Grenade throwing, for instance, is a buildup to Buddy Team Live Fire - a grad requirement. Land Nav under the pilot program is interwoven with FTX 3 “The Forge” when moving every night (5-8 miles) from one site to another. Worry not, skill level 1 tasks practice should never be stopped. It’s the whole purpose of Sergeant’s Time Training. Units should be using STT at least two times a month to hone these skills and prepare Soldiers for their next level of schooling, like BLC. The other STT could be for technical development. Don’t feel conflicted - rest assured the pilot program is doing this to produce more disciplined Soldiers, tactically proficient Soldiers out of BCT.
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SPC Training Room Nco
SPC (Join to see)
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I may have to get with you offline when I'm out of BLC to figure this out. Because all the research I'm doing on it just gives me bare bones information, and its just aggravating me more and more because a lot of the sources contradict one another and we all know better than to take Army Times at their word. Being at the same installation helps.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
MAJ Montgomery Granger
>1 y
The Army has been successful in the past because we practice contingencies. With a more technical environment than ever before we find ourselves dependent upon electronic devices that can and do fail. Therefore, learning and maintaining manual skills is still important. If every recruit were an Eagle Scout or Gold Award winner maybe we'd have to do less of it, but since Scouting is not a prerequisite to joining the military, those basic skills such as map and compass should still be taught. You never know when your GPS or smart phone will quit on you. Hooah!
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MAJ Integration Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
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Q: "So, don't you think we should keep focus on manual navigation..."
A: YES YES YES!

"Why? Because technology will inevitably fail eventually"
No. Because:
1) the received strength of GPS at the surface of the earth is 0 [login to see] 00000x Watts
2) Every adversary worth their salt has massive capabilities to jam GPS, and all the rest we have to assume are both trying to get military hammers, and buy commercial ones.
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