Posted on Dec 2, 2018
Mattis’ fix for the civilian-military divide: Stop being jerks
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“We better all go back to finding a way to embrace one another,” he said. “And the military, we’re not that special. We’re simply patriots who decide this is how we pay our dues.”
Mattis’ fix for the civilian-military divide: Stop being jerks
Posted from militarytimes.com
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Posted 6 y ago
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Educating Americans to be better citizens is gonna be tough inasmuch as the teachers have been indoctrinated to hate America and are passing that message on to our children and grand children.
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SFC (Join to see)
CPT Jack Durish I apologize for the long response. You brought up a couple of points I wanted to touch on.
Your response was a bit hyperbolic in my opinion, but not necessarily untrue in specific cases. Disagreement with American policies/practices does not necessarily equate to "hating" America. One can be critical of their nation's direction while still being loving and patriotic (I see this every time the President/Congress majority changes parties). That said, I'm not in every school throughout America, so I can only speak for myself and my children.
Something I try to keep in mind is similar to what SECDEF Mattis said in the article, "Referencing the partisan divide in national debate on Sunday, Mattis noted that “even if we have very different ideas on how we take the country forward, we probably don’t have big differences on where we want to go.” During the Anti-War movements in the 60's (minus those who attacked Soldiers as individuals, rather than the national foreign policy); was wanting an end to the Vietnam War and to preserve the lives of U.S. Servicemembers not as patriotic as the support of sending the troops to fight the nation's wars and to spread American influence? Although, there were many extreme variations of these ideas.
As you have said in other posts (and I agree), I think it's important to teach the concepts of national power and government in schools. There are many reasons nation's across the globe take specific actions, primarily based around their own benefit. I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching that even our country has to conduct certain activities abroad to preserve our standards of living. Unfortunately, I think those types of intentions have always been masked from the public, in favor of a nicer sounding narrative of revenge and/or liberation. They won't say "We are going to wage war in X country/region, because our native resource of X is running low, and our analysts have determined we will run out by XXXX year, which will have the negative impact of X. So we have to go take it." When political prudence goes wrong, it can sour public trust.
Then there is the problem with Veterans who are poor representatives of the military profession within the civilian population. While we are serving, we are required to maintain the utmost professional demeanor and interactions, especially when in public, because we represent the entire military. Well, in my opinion, with the presence of mass social media, Veterans have become a more frequent representative of the military than Active Servicemembers. I believe the behavior of Veterans plays a significant role in the public's perception of military members as a whole, yet it is a group that cannot (and arguably shouldn't) be regulated to behave in ways that best represent the service. So we are stuck with Veterans who go out and make the service look great (or at least neutral), and also those who make us look like assholes. With the way our human negativity bias goes, people will more likely remember the bad ones before they recall the good.
As a nation, we need to change the way we engage. The methods of the past, when information traveled slowly and was more difficult to fact-check, are no longer effective. Veterans and servicemembers have a more powerful and wide-reaching voice than ever before, but if not used well, it can be detrimental to the perception of our own profession.
Your response was a bit hyperbolic in my opinion, but not necessarily untrue in specific cases. Disagreement with American policies/practices does not necessarily equate to "hating" America. One can be critical of their nation's direction while still being loving and patriotic (I see this every time the President/Congress majority changes parties). That said, I'm not in every school throughout America, so I can only speak for myself and my children.
Something I try to keep in mind is similar to what SECDEF Mattis said in the article, "Referencing the partisan divide in national debate on Sunday, Mattis noted that “even if we have very different ideas on how we take the country forward, we probably don’t have big differences on where we want to go.” During the Anti-War movements in the 60's (minus those who attacked Soldiers as individuals, rather than the national foreign policy); was wanting an end to the Vietnam War and to preserve the lives of U.S. Servicemembers not as patriotic as the support of sending the troops to fight the nation's wars and to spread American influence? Although, there were many extreme variations of these ideas.
As you have said in other posts (and I agree), I think it's important to teach the concepts of national power and government in schools. There are many reasons nation's across the globe take specific actions, primarily based around their own benefit. I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching that even our country has to conduct certain activities abroad to preserve our standards of living. Unfortunately, I think those types of intentions have always been masked from the public, in favor of a nicer sounding narrative of revenge and/or liberation. They won't say "We are going to wage war in X country/region, because our native resource of X is running low, and our analysts have determined we will run out by XXXX year, which will have the negative impact of X. So we have to go take it." When political prudence goes wrong, it can sour public trust.
Then there is the problem with Veterans who are poor representatives of the military profession within the civilian population. While we are serving, we are required to maintain the utmost professional demeanor and interactions, especially when in public, because we represent the entire military. Well, in my opinion, with the presence of mass social media, Veterans have become a more frequent representative of the military than Active Servicemembers. I believe the behavior of Veterans plays a significant role in the public's perception of military members as a whole, yet it is a group that cannot (and arguably shouldn't) be regulated to behave in ways that best represent the service. So we are stuck with Veterans who go out and make the service look great (or at least neutral), and also those who make us look like assholes. With the way our human negativity bias goes, people will more likely remember the bad ones before they recall the good.
As a nation, we need to change the way we engage. The methods of the past, when information traveled slowly and was more difficult to fact-check, are no longer effective. Veterans and servicemembers have a more powerful and wide-reaching voice than ever before, but if not used well, it can be detrimental to the perception of our own profession.
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CPT Jack Durish
SFC (Join to see) - I appreciate the considered response, but I wasn't being hyperbolic. I deal with youth a lot. I hear what they are told in their classrooms. They are being taught a version of American history that is designed to inspire a new socialist revolution and it's working. Look at the way they are embracing this failed ideology while reviling the one that has encouraged the greatest advancements in human history. The rule of law and free market economics are the bedrocks of American success and they are being attacked and eroded continuously in American classrooms. And God help any student with the temerity to voice a different opinion than the one they are being fed. Freedom of speech is an anethema to them.
Once upon a time the opposing parties in America differed in solutions, but agreed with the goal. That is no longer the case. We are face with widely and wildly divergent goals. Also, there is no similarity whatsoever between the protesters of our youth and those of today. The antiwar demonstrators are not the inspiration of Antifa. Antifa is the natural inheritor of Hitler's Brown Shirts, bent on stifling opposing views and viewpoints while the Left assumes control. And, I suspect, they will be the first victims of their masters should the Left ascend to prominence the way that Hitler dispatched the Brown Shirts once he became Chancellor. One mustn't allow those who seeded the revolution to remain once the revolution has accomplished its purposes.
The most disturbing portion of your response is when you indict Veterans as poor representatives of the military. That is a reprehensible point of view and I hope that you weren't really serious. If I thought that you were, I would have down voted your response and castigated you for it. Instead, I hope that I can demonstrate by my own service to community and nation as a Veteran that we are representing the military well. We are among the leaders of volunteers in our communities and easily recognized by our demeanor and our leadership. Now, I wish you would share specific examples of your claim that there are enough badly behaving veterans to make the military look like assholes. I would love to respond to specifics in this case.
Once upon a time the opposing parties in America differed in solutions, but agreed with the goal. That is no longer the case. We are face with widely and wildly divergent goals. Also, there is no similarity whatsoever between the protesters of our youth and those of today. The antiwar demonstrators are not the inspiration of Antifa. Antifa is the natural inheritor of Hitler's Brown Shirts, bent on stifling opposing views and viewpoints while the Left assumes control. And, I suspect, they will be the first victims of their masters should the Left ascend to prominence the way that Hitler dispatched the Brown Shirts once he became Chancellor. One mustn't allow those who seeded the revolution to remain once the revolution has accomplished its purposes.
The most disturbing portion of your response is when you indict Veterans as poor representatives of the military. That is a reprehensible point of view and I hope that you weren't really serious. If I thought that you were, I would have down voted your response and castigated you for it. Instead, I hope that I can demonstrate by my own service to community and nation as a Veteran that we are representing the military well. We are among the leaders of volunteers in our communities and easily recognized by our demeanor and our leadership. Now, I wish you would share specific examples of your claim that there are enough badly behaving veterans to make the military look like assholes. I would love to respond to specifics in this case.
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SFC (Join to see)
CPT Jack Durish - To clarify, I said, "So we are stuck with Veterans who go out and make the service look great (or at least neutral), and also those who make us look like assholes. I indicated a mix, not a totality, but I probably could have better separated must understanding of the good and the bad. I will never automatically say that veterans are great people who only do good things, because it would be a lie; I feel the same for serving military members as well. The majority are good, but each group still has their poor stewards. I appreciate your reluctance to use downvote, because if I downvoted everything I detected as an unnecessary and inaccurate swipe at whole groups of people, I would be even more unpopular on RP than I already am.
My point was to say how veterans, which include young adults as old as 21-years old (in the group you've identified as misguided), are a prominent and frequent face of the military. However, they don't always provide the best presentation of the military to the civilian public (whether in-public or online). Even actively serving members don't always do as such, but can somewhat be controlled with regulation and policy. However, there are significantly more veterans than service members at any given time. Internet presence is a more significant factor than most give it credit, where I often hear other servicemembers and vets say, "it's the internet, it doesn't matter." However, those online interactions DO matter, and are strong influencers of perception. The military understands this, which is why social media policies came into existence. Veterans are not separated from their representation of the service, but they can't (and shouldn't) be regulated. My thoughts on the veteran representation is not a passive aggressive swipe at you or your age group. It's a culmination of my direct observations and experiences over the past 14 years. I noticed the military-civilian divide many years ago. It's not something I want to be true, as I've actively fought to counter many of the poor perceptions throughout the years. Unfortunately, you and I are only individuals. Again, that does not mean that my limited observations are an indication of what EVERY person will observe. There are no prominent examples to provide, because they are on-occasion interactions that have added up over the years to this the point where the SECDEF is talking about it.
I won't disagree that some classrooms are teaching in ways that are causing higher amounts of dissent amount youth. However, there are approximately 98,000 public schools, 34,000 private school, and 7,000 colleges across the nation, so I would be hard pressed to agree that their is a nation-wide conspiracy to turn all children into socialists or liberals (as I've seen mentioned before). The ideal image of American policy shifts throughout time. What was considered American at some points in history, are not considered so in modern times. However, as the shifts were occurring, I'd assume there were some that desired to hold on to the previous ways. I'm not advocating for any particular ideology, just that shifting opinions aren't always bad for American progress. I believe our nation remains so strong because of the fact we can adapt to world as it changes, rather than automatically rejecting change in the name of tradition, and falling behind. That's not to say that all change is good though.
Lastly, my point wasn't to compare protest groups of old to protest groups of new. My point was specifically to show how groups can differ in opinion, with both having negative views of the other, yet from a central observation of their points, not necessarily "hate" America. They may hate each other and other groups of people, but not necessarily America.
Just my opinions though.
My point was to say how veterans, which include young adults as old as 21-years old (in the group you've identified as misguided), are a prominent and frequent face of the military. However, they don't always provide the best presentation of the military to the civilian public (whether in-public or online). Even actively serving members don't always do as such, but can somewhat be controlled with regulation and policy. However, there are significantly more veterans than service members at any given time. Internet presence is a more significant factor than most give it credit, where I often hear other servicemembers and vets say, "it's the internet, it doesn't matter." However, those online interactions DO matter, and are strong influencers of perception. The military understands this, which is why social media policies came into existence. Veterans are not separated from their representation of the service, but they can't (and shouldn't) be regulated. My thoughts on the veteran representation is not a passive aggressive swipe at you or your age group. It's a culmination of my direct observations and experiences over the past 14 years. I noticed the military-civilian divide many years ago. It's not something I want to be true, as I've actively fought to counter many of the poor perceptions throughout the years. Unfortunately, you and I are only individuals. Again, that does not mean that my limited observations are an indication of what EVERY person will observe. There are no prominent examples to provide, because they are on-occasion interactions that have added up over the years to this the point where the SECDEF is talking about it.
I won't disagree that some classrooms are teaching in ways that are causing higher amounts of dissent amount youth. However, there are approximately 98,000 public schools, 34,000 private school, and 7,000 colleges across the nation, so I would be hard pressed to agree that their is a nation-wide conspiracy to turn all children into socialists or liberals (as I've seen mentioned before). The ideal image of American policy shifts throughout time. What was considered American at some points in history, are not considered so in modern times. However, as the shifts were occurring, I'd assume there were some that desired to hold on to the previous ways. I'm not advocating for any particular ideology, just that shifting opinions aren't always bad for American progress. I believe our nation remains so strong because of the fact we can adapt to world as it changes, rather than automatically rejecting change in the name of tradition, and falling behind. That's not to say that all change is good though.
Lastly, my point wasn't to compare protest groups of old to protest groups of new. My point was specifically to show how groups can differ in opinion, with both having negative views of the other, yet from a central observation of their points, not necessarily "hate" America. They may hate each other and other groups of people, but not necessarily America.
Just my opinions though.
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CPT Jack Durish
SFC (Join to see) okay, now let's consider the impression being made on our children by their teachers...
https://www.dailywire.com/news/38840/nearly-half-young-americans-believe-us-racist-and-joseph-curl?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
https://www.dailywire.com/news/38840/nearly-half-young-americans-believe-us-racist-and-joseph-curl?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Half Of Young Americans Believe U.S. Is Not 'Greatest' Country, Think U.S. Is Racist, Sexist,...
To hear former president Barack Obama tell it, America isn't that exceptional ("I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism," he said shortly after moving into the White House).
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