Posted on Sep 23, 2024
Recruits need real rifles at boot camp, top enlisted airman says
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Recruits need real rifles at boot camp, top enlisted airman says
MY SAY: Why does the Air Force have to reinvent the wheel? Basic Rifle Marksmanship or BRM for short, is a foundational course of instruction in the Army, but we don't issue toy guns to recruits. Real weapons are controlled items and issued as per SOP when BRM training takes place. If the weapon becomes part of the recruit's Advanced Individual Training, then they receive more intense training rather than just basic rifleman skills. Most recruits will not carry a weapon during the normal course of their assigned advanced duties, unless of course those duties take place in a war zone. Adding the unnecessary task of schlepping a weapon, toy or real, around basic training all day adds unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment, and also desensitizes the recruit to the special attention needed when real weapons are necessary. There should be a difference between peacetime cantonment and war time Forward Operating Base.
MY SAY: Why does the Air Force have to reinvent the wheel? Basic Rifle Marksmanship or BRM for short, is a foundational course of instruction in the Army, but we don't issue toy guns to recruits. Real weapons are controlled items and issued as per SOP when BRM training takes place. If the weapon becomes part of the recruit's Advanced Individual Training, then they receive more intense training rather than just basic rifleman skills. Most recruits will not carry a weapon during the normal course of their assigned advanced duties, unless of course those duties take place in a war zone. Adding the unnecessary task of schlepping a weapon, toy or real, around basic training all day adds unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment, and also desensitizes the recruit to the special attention needed when real weapons are necessary. There should be a difference between peacetime cantonment and war time Forward Operating Base.
Recruits need real rifles at boot camp, top enlisted airman says
Posted from defensenews.com
Weapons
Recruit
Basic Training
Rifle Shooting
Boot Camp
Posted 3 mo ago
Responses: 3
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Yet another "woke" idea. We didn't carry pistols around during officer training. We were issued them for range training and then had to clean and turn them back in. The same with rifles for the enlisted. This system isn't broken and doesn't need fixing.
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Great in theory, but we have had cases where unsuitable recruits went AWOL with assigned weapons.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-fort-jackson-bus-hijacking-soldier-verdict/
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-fort-jackson-bus-hijacking-soldier-verdict/
Army trainee who hijacked school bus full of kids found not guilty by reason of insanity
Jovan Collazo, who escaped basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina and hijacked a school bus, was found not guilty by reason of insanity last week.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
Yeah, recruits are not yet vetted, trained military personnel. Some flunk out! Some aren't suited for the responsibility and aren't yet mature enough or are unstable.
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LTC Eugene Chu
MAJ Montgomery Granger - The one in this case had undiagnosed schizophrenia. Some are medically unfit.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
That's one case in how many years since the Army started issuing them their rifles? I see this as the only case where a recruit took his weapon and went AWOL. Meanwhile I find many articles about military guns disappearing from units and getting sold on the streets...so sounds like it's active duty might be a problem.
Also the Air Force is goin to use inert guns...as in dummy guns to carry around. That's what the Army was doing for awhile because soldiers were leaving weapons unsecured on deployments.
It's basic training for combat - and I keep hearing all the people who post on here saying how "woke" and "lax" and "lazy" the Army is but this is too much?
They don't keep the weapon if they fail any part of BCT. I don't know I think it makes sesne at the very least dummy rifles.
Also the Air Force is goin to use inert guns...as in dummy guns to carry around. That's what the Army was doing for awhile because soldiers were leaving weapons unsecured on deployments.
It's basic training for combat - and I keep hearing all the people who post on here saying how "woke" and "lax" and "lazy" the Army is but this is too much?
They don't keep the weapon if they fail any part of BCT. I don't know I think it makes sesne at the very least dummy rifles.
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Actually - they do issue rifles to Army basic training recruits - not just for BRM. I can't remember exactly when that changed, I think it was during OIF/OEF because I remember hearing about the change due to soldiers leaving weapons unsecured on deployment. Again I can't remember when - and I think at first they were dummy rifles but then they switched and had them issue out an actual M4 to carry all the time because in combat/deployment, you carry them with you 24/7.
It even says in the article: "While Army recruits and Marine Corps poolees have long carried rifles during boot camp...."
It's basic combat training...now I don't know why the Air Force needs to carry them. On both deployments, the only AF I saw with weapons were Security Forces. Any other Airmen, never had a weapon. Ever. And were in PTs a lot of the time.
So wait a minute: "Most recruits will not carry a weapon during the normal course of their assigned advanced duties, unless of course those duties take place in a war zone. Adding the unnecessary task of schlepping a weapon, toy or real, around basic training all day adds unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment, and also desensitizes the recruit to the special attention needed when real weapons are necessary. There should be a difference between peacetime cantonment and war time Forward Operating Base."
I'm so confused because I feel like you're one of the people who talks about the military going "woke" and "lax" but you think it's too "harsh" to have recruits carry a weaopn 24/7 for 9 weeks (I doubt they get it the first week but if so then 10 weeks unless it's 11 now for Army I'm not sure). "...adds unncessary stress..." what? "Desensitizes the recruit to special attention when real weapons are necessary.." no it doesn't. It teaches them to respect that weapon a lot more than it did us only signing them out for BRM.
This is hilarious actually to read your respons and little ol Charlie down there saying this is "woke." Carrying a weapon 24/7 is "woke?" HOW? Of course you didn't carry your pistols in officer training Charlie - good grief. There's a lot of things officers don't do that enlisted do besides that.
I never thought I'd see that day the MAGA brigade says that carrying weapons in basic 24/7 is woke. Wow.
It even says in the article: "While Army recruits and Marine Corps poolees have long carried rifles during boot camp...."
It's basic combat training...now I don't know why the Air Force needs to carry them. On both deployments, the only AF I saw with weapons were Security Forces. Any other Airmen, never had a weapon. Ever. And were in PTs a lot of the time.
So wait a minute: "Most recruits will not carry a weapon during the normal course of their assigned advanced duties, unless of course those duties take place in a war zone. Adding the unnecessary task of schlepping a weapon, toy or real, around basic training all day adds unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment, and also desensitizes the recruit to the special attention needed when real weapons are necessary. There should be a difference between peacetime cantonment and war time Forward Operating Base."
I'm so confused because I feel like you're one of the people who talks about the military going "woke" and "lax" but you think it's too "harsh" to have recruits carry a weaopn 24/7 for 9 weeks (I doubt they get it the first week but if so then 10 weeks unless it's 11 now for Army I'm not sure). "...adds unncessary stress..." what? "Desensitizes the recruit to special attention when real weapons are necessary.." no it doesn't. It teaches them to respect that weapon a lot more than it did us only signing them out for BRM.
This is hilarious actually to read your respons and little ol Charlie down there saying this is "woke." Carrying a weapon 24/7 is "woke?" HOW? Of course you didn't carry your pistols in officer training Charlie - good grief. There's a lot of things officers don't do that enlisted do besides that.
I never thought I'd see that day the MAGA brigade says that carrying weapons in basic 24/7 is woke. Wow.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
It is WOKE because it's unnecessary. I'm sure no ammo is issued (thank God), but that, too is a combat zone special. Train for the mission, but have relevant, focused training that allows for BASIC skill development at appropriate times. One of the in-country problems was clearing weapons. If you don't issue ammo to Snuffy, Snuffy can't practice locking and loading, and then clearing his weapon. So, why not issue ammo? Because Snuffy will shoot himself and/or others. Best to leave the ammo on the range where there are many watchful eyes. If you issue a weapon without ammo, what are you telling the soldier? We don't trust you with ammo. The only purpose for ammo is training on the range or live fire exercises, or combat. If there's a threat, then a person should have their weapon and ammo. In 2002 I was deployed to Gitmo. First thing they did after we left the airport was take our weapons and put them in the armory. We saw them again six months later when we were re-deploying home. Iraq was different. First thing they did after we left the airport was issue a basic load of ammo. That's when you know sh*t was real. You don't need to carry an unloaded weapon, or a weapon with no ammo during basic or boot camp to get Snuffy used to it; used to what, really? It's not realistic. So, if there are no bad guys, no targets and no ammo, Snuffy starts to develop BAD HABITS and CARELESSNESS. DIs and Drill Sergeants probably want to jump off cliffs with all the nonsense associated with all the weapons with no purpose.
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