Posted on Apr 6, 2016
Thank you for your military service — now here are 9 reasons why I won't hire you
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I really like this article and others like it. I often feel like service members have a sense of entitlement when they leave the service, for simply serving. Personally, I do not want my service to define me, I want my abilities and skills to define me.
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SSG Ray Petersen
Sir, I couldn't say it better myself. I like that the military has given me a great set of tools to help define me. I have always worked hard for the things that I want. Have fought tooth and nail to try and get ahead in the service ( can thank my father for that upbringing). Honestly I would feel like a failure if I would be unable to provide for me and my family when I leave the service but I will just work twice as hard in order to do so.
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SPC Geoffrey Chatten
Very well said. I had a post recently about the "service member entitlement class".
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It's a straight dose of reality, and every point rings true...but I'll admit that never the less, I think there are counter-points. The truth is, I don't think there's that many of us who "transitioned" because we hated being in uniform, didn't have at least some part of our soul that wanted to stay "in the fight", or because getting up before sunrise and going to the rack long after sunset was such a drain on our lives. I don't know of any accurate statistics, but I'd bet money that the majority of us rotated due to circumstances we didn't anticipate, nor had the ability/assistance to manage.
Which leaves me with my sincere 'rebuttal' to the excellent, and honest article. Take it as an exercise in "critical thinking" more than "axe grinding". I was actually fortunate enough to be hired by a company that "understood", and very likely "taught" me these concepts:
Here's my nine things the private sector could learn from veterans-
1. True, you 'earned' your spot at the table...but not all tables are alike. Your ten to twenty years of climbing the ladder...did any one task you were asked to perform carry the risk of bodily injury or death-probably not? All of those certifications...did you have to earn them while being driven day and night by people under forty with something akin to absolute power over your life and schedule? Possibly, so you should understand. All those miles spent as a "road warrior"...anyone wake you up at your hotel at 2 am to tell you had five minutes to get dressed, mount up and go face God knows what? Not likely. I may not have your exact experience, but there's the off-chance that many of the skills you learned at least have parallels to what I experienced. The full investment your making in me won't be realized if you consider those experiences "invalid". Your example doesn't compare "apples to apples"...You will note that we don't ask members of other services to completely "start over" when crossing laterally.
2. If I'm not "unique", why would you pick me over anyone else? On the one hand, you want me to provide clear examples of how my experience translates into being the person you want...Now you want me to accept that I'm merely one of many identical people applying for the same opportunity? You say I should target industries fitting my skill sets-I agree. However, if your hiring model only sees "enlisted" or "officer"..."grunt" or "technician", your asking me to exclude myself from a variety of roles for which I may be very well suited. Remember, the military often expects personnel to be excellent in a variety of roles at one time. I can do the same for you.
3. Yes, my resume is pretty long, and I need to cut it down to the "relevant" portions. That said, if I'm trying to get a job as a "Logistics Manager", I can't very well prove that I have leadership experience and technical expertise without providing the positions and responsibilities that probably span several "jobs"...owing to the fact that I was forced to change "jobs" about every two years. Are you going to be savvy enough to understand that if I exclude five years of my work history?
4. Bad grammar/spelling-No contest here-Still, putting this item on your list is evidence that rather than viewing these poor examples as the exception...you view them as the rule. We don't accept mediocre effort in the Service either.
5 (and 6). Listen, social media is (and has been) an important part of the professional process for some time. Please keep in mind that I'm leaving a culture where it isn't as widely accepted, and possibly even discouraged. Also keep in mind that the very admission that laboring over the "official" applications online is essentially useless may lead me to conclude that your hiring process is not designed well enough to discern between a "good presentation" and actual skills. If I can learn to use "Blue Force Tracker", drive an up-armored vehicle, crew an aircraft, or man a flight deck...odds are I can quickly learn to navigate Twitter.
7. Again, failure to prepare is inexcusable, even in our world...but like item "4"; if you consider this to be that "common", you may be bringing an expectation to the table that equates to bias.
8. Sending a thank you note is not only professional, but expected-However, just like items "5" and "6", you do realize that I'm coming from a culture where what your describing is basically inappropriate? I sought out the opportunity, hopefully came with my "game face" on, and presumably gave you my best during a formal interview...Passion? If your company manufactures blenders and I'm applying to sell them for you, let's be realistic-the "passion" I'm bringing to the table is less important than my concrete acceptance of the fact you are offering to provide my needs in exchange for my giving nothing short of my very best. In the end, that may prove a more predictable measure of my value.
9. If it seems like I'm not sure what I want to do...that may because I've done it already. The military isn't for everyone. Let's assume the statistics are even remotely accurate-That means less than 10% of the total population ever serve. I didn't make the decision to enlist or go through officer candidate selection processes...let alone endure the many months, if not years of training along the way, then serve for any length of time in that capacity...without sincere desire and focus. At seventeen, I probably thought I'd end up retiring from the military. At twenty-five, I probably knew how unlikely that would be against a landscape of budget cuts, policy changes and promotion "quagmires". I may even have left of my own accord...but with great regret. So here I am at thirty-five, with a wife, children, debts, all of the things you have...but lacking the "mission" that kept me going for the majority of my adult life. I'm trying to find a new "mission" with you. If all you're offering is an ambiguous position labelled as "energetic new team member", I'm probably wise enough to know that means "guy you intend to work into the ground on the cheap". If what you're really looking for is someone to believe in your company and rather than "punch a clock", give 110% to make it grow...then tell me that; I'll eat it up. If spending three to five years on your factory floor might lead to managing a line-give me that incentive (but be sure your capable and willing to deliver-my last "boss" was).
Bottom line, it's on me to accept that I'm entering your world, and that I have to play by your rules...You're absolutely correct in assuming we'd demand the same from you in reverse. However, some of your advertised points sound like asking me to "brain dump" everything I've learned, and "forget" everything I've accomplished...Personally, I think that would be cheating yourself out of a truly quality individual.
Which leaves me with my sincere 'rebuttal' to the excellent, and honest article. Take it as an exercise in "critical thinking" more than "axe grinding". I was actually fortunate enough to be hired by a company that "understood", and very likely "taught" me these concepts:
Here's my nine things the private sector could learn from veterans-
1. True, you 'earned' your spot at the table...but not all tables are alike. Your ten to twenty years of climbing the ladder...did any one task you were asked to perform carry the risk of bodily injury or death-probably not? All of those certifications...did you have to earn them while being driven day and night by people under forty with something akin to absolute power over your life and schedule? Possibly, so you should understand. All those miles spent as a "road warrior"...anyone wake you up at your hotel at 2 am to tell you had five minutes to get dressed, mount up and go face God knows what? Not likely. I may not have your exact experience, but there's the off-chance that many of the skills you learned at least have parallels to what I experienced. The full investment your making in me won't be realized if you consider those experiences "invalid". Your example doesn't compare "apples to apples"...You will note that we don't ask members of other services to completely "start over" when crossing laterally.
2. If I'm not "unique", why would you pick me over anyone else? On the one hand, you want me to provide clear examples of how my experience translates into being the person you want...Now you want me to accept that I'm merely one of many identical people applying for the same opportunity? You say I should target industries fitting my skill sets-I agree. However, if your hiring model only sees "enlisted" or "officer"..."grunt" or "technician", your asking me to exclude myself from a variety of roles for which I may be very well suited. Remember, the military often expects personnel to be excellent in a variety of roles at one time. I can do the same for you.
3. Yes, my resume is pretty long, and I need to cut it down to the "relevant" portions. That said, if I'm trying to get a job as a "Logistics Manager", I can't very well prove that I have leadership experience and technical expertise without providing the positions and responsibilities that probably span several "jobs"...owing to the fact that I was forced to change "jobs" about every two years. Are you going to be savvy enough to understand that if I exclude five years of my work history?
4. Bad grammar/spelling-No contest here-Still, putting this item on your list is evidence that rather than viewing these poor examples as the exception...you view them as the rule. We don't accept mediocre effort in the Service either.
5 (and 6). Listen, social media is (and has been) an important part of the professional process for some time. Please keep in mind that I'm leaving a culture where it isn't as widely accepted, and possibly even discouraged. Also keep in mind that the very admission that laboring over the "official" applications online is essentially useless may lead me to conclude that your hiring process is not designed well enough to discern between a "good presentation" and actual skills. If I can learn to use "Blue Force Tracker", drive an up-armored vehicle, crew an aircraft, or man a flight deck...odds are I can quickly learn to navigate Twitter.
7. Again, failure to prepare is inexcusable, even in our world...but like item "4"; if you consider this to be that "common", you may be bringing an expectation to the table that equates to bias.
8. Sending a thank you note is not only professional, but expected-However, just like items "5" and "6", you do realize that I'm coming from a culture where what your describing is basically inappropriate? I sought out the opportunity, hopefully came with my "game face" on, and presumably gave you my best during a formal interview...Passion? If your company manufactures blenders and I'm applying to sell them for you, let's be realistic-the "passion" I'm bringing to the table is less important than my concrete acceptance of the fact you are offering to provide my needs in exchange for my giving nothing short of my very best. In the end, that may prove a more predictable measure of my value.
9. If it seems like I'm not sure what I want to do...that may because I've done it already. The military isn't for everyone. Let's assume the statistics are even remotely accurate-That means less than 10% of the total population ever serve. I didn't make the decision to enlist or go through officer candidate selection processes...let alone endure the many months, if not years of training along the way, then serve for any length of time in that capacity...without sincere desire and focus. At seventeen, I probably thought I'd end up retiring from the military. At twenty-five, I probably knew how unlikely that would be against a landscape of budget cuts, policy changes and promotion "quagmires". I may even have left of my own accord...but with great regret. So here I am at thirty-five, with a wife, children, debts, all of the things you have...but lacking the "mission" that kept me going for the majority of my adult life. I'm trying to find a new "mission" with you. If all you're offering is an ambiguous position labelled as "energetic new team member", I'm probably wise enough to know that means "guy you intend to work into the ground on the cheap". If what you're really looking for is someone to believe in your company and rather than "punch a clock", give 110% to make it grow...then tell me that; I'll eat it up. If spending three to five years on your factory floor might lead to managing a line-give me that incentive (but be sure your capable and willing to deliver-my last "boss" was).
Bottom line, it's on me to accept that I'm entering your world, and that I have to play by your rules...You're absolutely correct in assuming we'd demand the same from you in reverse. However, some of your advertised points sound like asking me to "brain dump" everything I've learned, and "forget" everything I've accomplished...Personally, I think that would be cheating yourself out of a truly quality individual.
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PO3 Rick Kundiger
Outstanding response! Do you mind if I share it on linkedin in a post? I'll credit you for it of course.
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First and foremost I would like to say thanks for taking the time to share this was a great read and I will take this in consideration as well as pass this on to others. In the same token I would like to pose a question that I believe could be tied to this as well but most are not aware of. As stated in the article the services are down sizing and this is reality. With this being said some great individuals will get sent home because the cuts not because of there performance. As I learn more and more about the outcome of this process I believe there is another down fall for transitioning soldiers. If you are a two time pass over for promotion or discharged because of a QMP board your DD214 will reflect this information. Which brings me to my question, does or can this effect the Soldier in transition? I would love to hear some honest feedback on the reality of this.
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PO3 Rick Kundiger
As a former federal government manager within the DoD and .gov (GS-14 & NSPS "15") I can say I never paid attention to promotion board results. If the applicant pointed it out in the interview when asked the standard, "Why did you leave the military?" question I would discuss it, but being passed over in-and-of-itself was not a concern for me. Promotions are highly competitive and not everyone can make it.
If, during that discussion, the applicant let slip something that may have been a contributor to being passed over I may find that important. I've had people tell me things about how they would fight with their superiors who were "idiots" or how they did some asinine thing like jump rank and go tell a GO something at a social event or at the gym to try to push an agenda their immediate superiors wouldn't support. THOSE are red flags. Being passed over is otherwise a non-issue for me.
If, during that discussion, the applicant let slip something that may have been a contributor to being passed over I may find that important. I've had people tell me things about how they would fight with their superiors who were "idiots" or how they did some asinine thing like jump rank and go tell a GO something at a social event or at the gym to try to push an agenda their immediate superiors wouldn't support. THOSE are red flags. Being passed over is otherwise a non-issue for me.
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