Posted on Apr 26, 2019
The 'micromanaging' Marine general should focus on strategy, not mustaches
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This junior officer has some valid points that the general isn't going to like
The 'micromanaging' Marine general should focus on strategy, not mustaches
Posted from taskandpurpose.com
Marines
Afghanistan
Leadership
Toxic Leadership
Grooming Standards
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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Know how we kept senior leaders from sticking their fingers in our pie...
- We inspected the Soldiers and didn't let them roam around looking like shit birds.
- We kept our areas neat and orderly.
- We had a training schedule posted and checked up on our troops to ensure they were where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be there and had the stuff they were supposed to have to do the mission or training that was on the schedule.
-We maintained our equipment so we wouldn't look like a band of heathens going down the road and could get to, work at, and return from our mission sites.
The junior officer is going to have a rude awakening when they graduate to the real world outside the military, guess what: even here we have established business hours that tell us when to be at work, what tasks are priority, when break time is, when and how long lunch is, what is acceptable dress and hygiene, and when we can leave work. Hell we even have OSHA, ADA and EPA that dictate portions of our daily existence and those cats issue fines if you're not in uniform or obeying procedures.
The whole premise of decentralized mission command and the strategic corporal is that the "corporal" (read that as leader) is going to do what they are supposed to do and make mature decisions while executing the commanders intent. Enforcing basic standards are part of that.
I get it, it's been a long war and that some units, in some areas, working with some local nationals, on some missions, needed to have relaxed grooming standards in order to be better accepted by their counterparts but even that was in effect a standard that was driven by the mission. New mission, new location, new commanders intent.
This is what I told my PSGs and later my 1SGs and then my peers ... You want me to be the grass and uniform 1SG / CSM, I can do that and our life will suck. You want me out there fighting to get us good missions, construction projects, updated tools and equipment, and training. I can do that. Who and what you get, is entirely on you and if you enforce the basic standards; I ,and no one else, will have any reason to screw with you. Guess what I got to spend my time doing.
Inspections by senior leaders became "visits", What do you want Now comments became "what can we get you guys".
I never profess to be perfect ' cause I wasn't. But I think the General is doing what needs to be done to reel in and realign his troops.
- We inspected the Soldiers and didn't let them roam around looking like shit birds.
- We kept our areas neat and orderly.
- We had a training schedule posted and checked up on our troops to ensure they were where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be there and had the stuff they were supposed to have to do the mission or training that was on the schedule.
-We maintained our equipment so we wouldn't look like a band of heathens going down the road and could get to, work at, and return from our mission sites.
The junior officer is going to have a rude awakening when they graduate to the real world outside the military, guess what: even here we have established business hours that tell us when to be at work, what tasks are priority, when break time is, when and how long lunch is, what is acceptable dress and hygiene, and when we can leave work. Hell we even have OSHA, ADA and EPA that dictate portions of our daily existence and those cats issue fines if you're not in uniform or obeying procedures.
The whole premise of decentralized mission command and the strategic corporal is that the "corporal" (read that as leader) is going to do what they are supposed to do and make mature decisions while executing the commanders intent. Enforcing basic standards are part of that.
I get it, it's been a long war and that some units, in some areas, working with some local nationals, on some missions, needed to have relaxed grooming standards in order to be better accepted by their counterparts but even that was in effect a standard that was driven by the mission. New mission, new location, new commanders intent.
This is what I told my PSGs and later my 1SGs and then my peers ... You want me to be the grass and uniform 1SG / CSM, I can do that and our life will suck. You want me out there fighting to get us good missions, construction projects, updated tools and equipment, and training. I can do that. Who and what you get, is entirely on you and if you enforce the basic standards; I ,and no one else, will have any reason to screw with you. Guess what I got to spend my time doing.
Inspections by senior leaders became "visits", What do you want Now comments became "what can we get you guys".
I never profess to be perfect ' cause I wasn't. But I think the General is doing what needs to be done to reel in and realign his troops.
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SGT Thomas Seward
Maybe I’m showing my age, but I would have hung my head in shame if the Sergeant Major referred to even one of my men as a shit bird!
It’s been 30 years, but I vividly remember assigning one of my men to the shit burning detail for fucking up one night in Central America. Nobody was injured, but that was only because Murphy’s Law was busy being tested out by a bunch of CIA types at the time.
It’s been 30 years, but I vividly remember assigning one of my men to the shit burning detail for fucking up one night in Central America. Nobody was injured, but that was only because Murphy’s Law was busy being tested out by a bunch of CIA types at the time.
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CW2 Stephen Pate
CSM Richard StCyr I friggin love this. Outfuckingstanding! I miss this kind of leadership and so does the rest of the military. Thank you for your service!
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Discipline is a skill/behavior that transcends a lot of things in your life. The Marines are all about discipline. That means (back in my day) that your boots and brass were shined, your uniform was serviceable, your living and work area was clean and squared away etc. You could also put a round through a flea's ass at 500 yds, toss a grenade, you maintained a clean weapon(s) you could operate your equipment proficiently, hump the load, pass a PFT and a thousand other things.
Discipline breakdowns can start small and snowball on you quickly. Where is this LT when his Marines are unshaven, are wearing unsat haircuts, unserviceable uniforms etc? No one wants to pick weeds but it has to be done. Why does a general officer see this regularly? The LT has failed to maintain a simple standard and now he is offended that a general is calling BS on him. Square away your Marines LT and the general will not need to do so for you.
Discipline breakdowns can start small and snowball on you quickly. Where is this LT when his Marines are unshaven, are wearing unsat haircuts, unserviceable uniforms etc? No one wants to pick weeds but it has to be done. Why does a general officer see this regularly? The LT has failed to maintain a simple standard and now he is offended that a general is calling BS on him. Square away your Marines LT and the general will not need to do so for you.
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LTC Jason Mackay
To pile on Cpl Jeff N. , an officer senior to me once patiently explained to me this following a comment I made wondering aloud why a very senior officer was fixated on something I saw as trivial. Dare I say micromanagement...his response:
"He is pissed because if he can't trust us to handle <this pissant thing> how can he trust us to handle something bigger and more important?" Meaning? There can't big boy rules without trust and historic record of subordînate competence.
An informal rule of,policy letters. They are rarely in isolation. He had to have seen innumerable shortcomings to drive him to a lightning rod policy like this. I am surprised someone was not relieved.
To the young Marine Officer's argument:
1. if you handled your shit, This GO would not be knee deep in it. If you want autonomy, handle you're shit.
2. How many leaders in your formation walked past those things and did nothing? Take that finger and point it back at your self.
3. Yes you do not have all the resources you need. Welcome to the Department of Defense. Learn how to complain properly. You have to demonstrate how you have exhausted all avenues to get the resources the right way. Did you use the process/system? How Is the process broken? Did you forecast the ammo? Did you have it in your briefed training plan? Or did you just wake up one morning and simply demand it? You have to not only work in the system, you have to point oût how it can be fixed. PS you need no additional resources to be disciplined.
4. Water is wet. Sky is blue. Service members are expected to maintain area police (i.e. The Sergeants Major details of litter, grass, rock paînting, etc).
"He is pissed because if he can't trust us to handle <this pissant thing> how can he trust us to handle something bigger and more important?" Meaning? There can't big boy rules without trust and historic record of subordînate competence.
An informal rule of,policy letters. They are rarely in isolation. He had to have seen innumerable shortcomings to drive him to a lightning rod policy like this. I am surprised someone was not relieved.
To the young Marine Officer's argument:
1. if you handled your shit, This GO would not be knee deep in it. If you want autonomy, handle you're shit.
2. How many leaders in your formation walked past those things and did nothing? Take that finger and point it back at your self.
3. Yes you do not have all the resources you need. Welcome to the Department of Defense. Learn how to complain properly. You have to demonstrate how you have exhausted all avenues to get the resources the right way. Did you use the process/system? How Is the process broken? Did you forecast the ammo? Did you have it in your briefed training plan? Or did you just wake up one morning and simply demand it? You have to not only work in the system, you have to point oût how it can be fixed. PS you need no additional resources to be disciplined.
4. Water is wet. Sky is blue. Service members are expected to maintain area police (i.e. The Sergeants Major details of litter, grass, rock paînting, etc).
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Cpl Jeff N.
SFC Erin Barnett - I agree, there are multiple levels of failure here. I was only addressing the LT's as he felt the need to write an anonymous letter. Yes, the individual Marine knows the policies and should have managed to it, period. There were squad leaders, NCO's, Staff NCO's and this LT in the platoon, any of whom could address the issues. The fact that none of them did so effectively is a real problem to me. This is simple stuff.
It used to go like this. Hey Smith, your haircut is unsat. You have until 1700 today to have a good haircut. At 1701, if he had an unsat haircut he was in a world of shit. That might mean a physical altercation with a group of NCO's (I know that sounds so harsh to some today) or perhaps scrubbing pissers and shitters all night, maybe both if he is an ongoing problem child. 99% of the time the infraction was fixed without issue. There were always the problem children that regularly did not meet the standard. They paid dearly. Even their peers became tired of the issues and they corrected things many times.
It used to go like this. Hey Smith, your haircut is unsat. You have until 1700 today to have a good haircut. At 1701, if he had an unsat haircut he was in a world of shit. That might mean a physical altercation with a group of NCO's (I know that sounds so harsh to some today) or perhaps scrubbing pissers and shitters all night, maybe both if he is an ongoing problem child. 99% of the time the infraction was fixed without issue. There were always the problem children that regularly did not meet the standard. They paid dearly. Even their peers became tired of the issues and they corrected things many times.
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Cpl Jeff N.
LTC Jason Mackay - Exactly right. This stuff is really simple. There are lots of policies and regulations on it and the standard is known by all. If the General has platoon commanders that cannot be trusted on haircuts, uniforms and shaves, the most basic of things, how can he rely on him for the more complex?
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When a CG feels the need to issue such a policy - his subordinate leaders have failed him and the Corps. What he is angry about falls squarely under the purview of the NCO Corps and Company Grade Officers.
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