Posted on Jan 3, 2019
Trump Claims to Have Fired Mattis for Failure to End Afghan War
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Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 4
I am a huge fan of General Mattis, always have been. I was disappointed to see him leave the administration. We have civilian control over the armed forces for a reason. One of those reasons is so we do not end up in protracted wars with no real end in sight and no great strategy on how to win. We have had two presidents, both who served for two terms each not take on this war and find a way to win it or get out.
We've been in Afghanistan for 18 years. I am not sure we are any closer to a win there than we were a decade ago. We need to rethink our strategy and tactics in places like Afghanistan.
Trump wants to end these conflicts and frankly, after 18 years of troops in country, what is the counter argument? We need 1 more year, 5 more years, 18 more years, we need to be there forever?
We've been in Afghanistan for 18 years. I am not sure we are any closer to a win there than we were a decade ago. We need to rethink our strategy and tactics in places like Afghanistan.
Trump wants to end these conflicts and frankly, after 18 years of troops in country, what is the counter argument? We need 1 more year, 5 more years, 18 more years, we need to be there forever?
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LTC (Join to see)
I agree that US involvement in these wars needs to be brought to a close. But I also believe that those decisions should be made in an ordered, informed fashion in consultation with our allies who also have troops in harms way. I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that a lot of what caused Mattis to leave was as much the way the decisions were made as the decision themselves.
As strange as it seems, Mattis as SECDEF was actually part of the civilian control of the military. The SECDEF is part of the National Command Authority, and is second only to the president in his authority over the DOD and the operations of the combatant commanders. He is in the formal chain of command, while the Chairman of the JCS is not. That's why Mattis needed a waiver to the law that states a military person has to wait 7 years before serving as SECDEF. I'm not so sure putting retired generals in there is really such a good idea. Does anyone really believe that after 4 decades of service, that Mattis can somehow just put his "civilian" hat (after his life experience, can he even have a civilian hat?) on and view the issues from a civilian rather than a military perspective? I sort of doubt it. I believe when you put a 4 star as SECDEF, what you have really done is created a 5 star rather than having civilian control of the military.
As far as resigning goes, I remember sometime in the 80s or 90s and Air Force Chief of Staff resigned due to differences with the president. I don't recall his name, but remember a quote from an interview he gave to the AF Times afterwards. Basically he said that since he gets 75% of his pay when he retires, he essentially is a 4 star working for lieutenant pay. And if your role is to give advice based upon your decades of service, and your advice is ignored, then what's the point of staying in the job. An interesting take.
As strange as it seems, Mattis as SECDEF was actually part of the civilian control of the military. The SECDEF is part of the National Command Authority, and is second only to the president in his authority over the DOD and the operations of the combatant commanders. He is in the formal chain of command, while the Chairman of the JCS is not. That's why Mattis needed a waiver to the law that states a military person has to wait 7 years before serving as SECDEF. I'm not so sure putting retired generals in there is really such a good idea. Does anyone really believe that after 4 decades of service, that Mattis can somehow just put his "civilian" hat (after his life experience, can he even have a civilian hat?) on and view the issues from a civilian rather than a military perspective? I sort of doubt it. I believe when you put a 4 star as SECDEF, what you have really done is created a 5 star rather than having civilian control of the military.
As far as resigning goes, I remember sometime in the 80s or 90s and Air Force Chief of Staff resigned due to differences with the president. I don't recall his name, but remember a quote from an interview he gave to the AF Times afterwards. Basically he said that since he gets 75% of his pay when he retires, he essentially is a 4 star working for lieutenant pay. And if your role is to give advice based upon your decades of service, and your advice is ignored, then what's the point of staying in the job. An interesting take.
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Cpl Jeff N.
LTC (Join to see) - You are assuming there is no coordination with our allies. That is likely not true. Mattis might have left over the policy itself, not the implementation/communication/coordination of it. I know Mattis is civilian control, technically. A waiver had to be done to allow him to serve. It is likely very difficult to take off the stars, put on a suit and forget 40 years of experience. The transition does not always work.
I suspect they had multiple conversations about policy in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq etc and our engagement with NATO and other allies. Mattis, for good reasons, may not have always been on board or liked the approach etc. He did the right think and stepped aside. The reality is the conversation likely was the president telling him he needed Mattis to support the plan or move on. Mattis decided to move on. Had he not, the president might have had to act. Whether he resigned or was let go isn't really a big deal. The reality is they did not agree on policy. The reality is Trump sets policy, Mattis enacts it (with consultation and advise etc).
I suspect they had multiple conversations about policy in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq etc and our engagement with NATO and other allies. Mattis, for good reasons, may not have always been on board or liked the approach etc. He did the right think and stepped aside. The reality is the conversation likely was the president telling him he needed Mattis to support the plan or move on. Mattis decided to move on. Had he not, the president might have had to act. Whether he resigned or was let go isn't really a big deal. The reality is they did not agree on policy. The reality is Trump sets policy, Mattis enacts it (with consultation and advise etc).
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SFC Jim Ruether
I think that our Pres. Trump could have coordinated a move towards withdrawal of troops with General Mattis. It would appear it was a decision based on politics and polls. I certainly hope not but it looks that way. Is this the beginning of decisions based on negotiations?
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What I think is interesting, everyone was all up in arms when we went into Syria saying we shouldn't be there and we should not get involved, now that Trump is pulling out of Syria, he is wrong for doing it. Can't have it both ways. I think people for the most part just hate him in general and it wouldn't matter what he does, its wrong. He could literally invest billions more in famine relief, get homeless vets off the streets and people would still rake him over the coals for it.
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Trump:
1 Feels grandiose and self-important for reasons that are not supported by reality.
2 Obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, power, or omnipotence via his unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist) or bodily beauty and sexual performance (the somatic narcissist).
3 Believes that he is unique and special and can only be understood by and associate with other unique or high-status people.
4 Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention, and affirmation.
5 Feels a sense of entitlement.
6 Exploits others without guilt or remorse.
7 Devoid of empathy.
8 Tends to be envious of others or believes that others are envious of him.
9 Displays arrogant and haughty behavior.
1 Feels grandiose and self-important for reasons that are not supported by reality.
2 Obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, power, or omnipotence via his unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist) or bodily beauty and sexual performance (the somatic narcissist).
3 Believes that he is unique and special and can only be understood by and associate with other unique or high-status people.
4 Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention, and affirmation.
5 Feels a sense of entitlement.
6 Exploits others without guilt or remorse.
7 Devoid of empathy.
8 Tends to be envious of others or believes that others are envious of him.
9 Displays arrogant and haughty behavior.
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