Posted on Jul 19, 2016
WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT! Police Fatally Shoot Man On A Bus After He Tried To Grab A Cop's Gun
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
First, you're asking for a SitRep on a couple minutes of video. Second, I am retired police. I've been in this situation a few times. Not once were weapons ever drawn, let alone deadly force used. It was Colonel Nathan Jessup who said it best: "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth." This specific situation digressed rapidly from a Force Continuum Level 2 or 3 to a Level 6. Its most significant contributing factor, as obvious as a bull in a China Shop, were the actions of the first officer, the female officer. Her approach was wrong, her timing was wrong, her posturing was wrong, her use of a drawn weapon, FROM WHAT I SAW, was very wrong, and she should NEVER have been allowed to strap on a gun and badge. "You want the truth?" Yes, it takes two to tango. But the city bus service was monitoring this disturbance live. They called police. Police arrived with information given to them by their own dispatchers that no knife, firearm, or other TYPICAL weapon had yet been displayed. This female officer draws her firearm without adequate provocation. She enters the bus in very bad form. She is accosted by a male less than her size and weight and she is completely overpowered. The suspect goes for her firearm. It should never have been out of its holster. She's on the floor, tussling with the bad guy when a male officer enters the bus, sees what HE SEES, makes a judgment call, and shoots the bad guy on the floor of the bus...in two separate shooting cycles. One may have been plenty, I DO NOT KNOW. But, the second round of shots is highly, very highly questionable in my book, from several procedural and legal viewpoints.
What I saw, I've seen untold times in real life, and in newsreels, and uncut, unedited video shot by store cameras, phone cameras, dash-mount cameras, body cameras, and BUS cameras. I have been sickened and angered by what I saw many, many times. In those situations where I witnessed or watched egregious violations of proper police procedure, it shows a female officer, overweight, overwhelmed, overmatched, and male officers having to overcompensate in some circumstances. That's exactly what happened here. Furthermore, it is an inescapably direct result of hiring practices and standards meant to get as many women into the police department or the fire department.
The female officer's hesitation had absolutely nothing to do with national headlines. Repeat, nothing. Her hesitation and her decision to draw her weapon and enter the bus were all the result of her gender, her instincts, her lack of common sense AT THAT MOMENT, and her inability to perform physically in a confrontation that DID NOT, in my opinion, rise to the level of the presentation of a firearm as early as she displayed hers. "You can't handle the truth."
What I saw, I've seen untold times in real life, and in newsreels, and uncut, unedited video shot by store cameras, phone cameras, dash-mount cameras, body cameras, and BUS cameras. I have been sickened and angered by what I saw many, many times. In those situations where I witnessed or watched egregious violations of proper police procedure, it shows a female officer, overweight, overwhelmed, overmatched, and male officers having to overcompensate in some circumstances. That's exactly what happened here. Furthermore, it is an inescapably direct result of hiring practices and standards meant to get as many women into the police department or the fire department.
The female officer's hesitation had absolutely nothing to do with national headlines. Repeat, nothing. Her hesitation and her decision to draw her weapon and enter the bus were all the result of her gender, her instincts, her lack of common sense AT THAT MOMENT, and her inability to perform physically in a confrontation that DID NOT, in my opinion, rise to the level of the presentation of a firearm as early as she displayed hers. "You can't handle the truth."
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PO1 John Miller
SCPO (Join to see)
Finally the opinion of a law enforcement officer, instead of all these Internet quarterbacks! Thank you Senior Chief.
Finally the opinion of a law enforcement officer, instead of all these Internet quarterbacks! Thank you Senior Chief.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
PO1 John Miller - I think I did state that I was Quarter backing, I am not a Civilian Police officer but a Military Police officer and would not have DRAWN my weapon. Might have had a taser or spray out, but not My Weapon.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Exactly! Horrible initial instincts! No reaction gap, no body control, weak! Reminds me of a quote from 'The Replacements' what you said "That's why girls don't play the game." I've only ever had to draw my weapon once while responding to a domestic and ol' boy answered the door wielding two knifes....there was no reason for her actions
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Which cop do you think hesitated? It looked to me like he fired as soon as he had a clear shot that wouldn't risk hitting his partner. If you're talking about the female, it looked to me that she just was overpowered and surprised by how quick the guy charged her. It didn't seem to me that she hesitated. It just looked to me like the guy got the jump on her, so to speak.more like she made a tactical mistake by extending her arms around the corner so that her gun was just inches away from the guy, but not pointing at him. That allowed him to push it to the side before she was in a good position to protect herself.
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SPC Michael Griggs
Well, the first officer. If she detected a threat and the suspect approached her aggressively, then she should of shot, or she should of never had her gun out to begin with. Once you pull your gun in close quarters like that, you severely limit your options on how you can react, unless you are train in duel weapon, ie gun and baton. Not many officers are trained in that tactic, as it is hard to gain a usable proficiency. It is hard to critique these without more info, but we try and be as objective as possible. I do know that she and the driver owes the second officer their lives.
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LTC (Join to see)
I'm not meaning to criticize the female officer. It's easy to say you would do something differently when you have the luxury of watching it on tape. I'm just saying I didn't notice any hesitation. She drew her weapon in the face of an unknown threat, but at that instance had no reason to shoot the guy. She was outside and he was in the bus. In fact, when the guy saw the gun, he retreated further into the bus rather than move towards her. But then she sort of charged forward carelessly, and allowed herself to get too close to the guy and not be in a position to fire when he moved forward.
But that's all easy to determine when your adrenaline isn't pumping and your heart going 100 mph. I just don't see any spot where she hesitated, particularly one where she would have had the time to think or hesitate, and certainly wouldn't ascribe any of her actions to anything related to the political climate at the moment.
But that's all easy to determine when your adrenaline isn't pumping and your heart going 100 mph. I just don't see any spot where she hesitated, particularly one where she would have had the time to think or hesitate, and certainly wouldn't ascribe any of her actions to anything related to the political climate at the moment.
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This whole thing ended up with someone killed because of the way the female cop went in. No talk, no attempt to de-escalate the situation, she just ran right up on him with her gun out and practically handed it to him. She shouldn't be a cop.
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SCPO (Join to see)
You hit the proverbial nail on the head, Sgt Dee Watts. I've known and/or observed thousands of police over the years. I've known a good number of men who should not be cops, usually from a psychological, not physical, standpoint. But I've known or observed scores and scores of women whose acceptance into the ranks of a law enforcement agency borders on insanity. They were hired as nothing more than quota fillers. Their physical capabilities were/are barely above non-existent. Damn, it makes me angry just writing about it. Let me finish by saying I'm very glad I'm through with it all.
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