Posted on Feb 21, 2014

Is a turd still a turd, or can you polish it?

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Lets face it-every unit has one. Soldier or SN is constantly screwing up, has a paper trail the size of Mt Everest in counseling statements, fails the PT test, won t wear the uniform properly, is disrespectful, and by all accounts a dirt bucket. <div><br></div><div>Do you continue to try and improve the person or get rid of them? I d like a perspective. </div>

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Posted 10 y ago

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Responses: 14

SSG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

Sometimes its the leader of that turd. Put that turd in a new toilet and it might shine.

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CPT Aaron Kletzing

10 y

I've seen some remarkable turnarounds with personnel who get a Rehab Transfer to a sister unit -- and they get to reset and start over. Sometimes the unit makes it especially hard for a once-bad member to turn himself around. Those bad impressions just stay with him and his CoC no matter what, so if he moves perhaps he can really become a new person.

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SSG(P) (Join to see)

10 y

CPT Kletzing:

Exactly! Sometimes a Soldier will screw-up once, and become labeled as a "problem child" and be treated as such in the future, despite any good progress that s/he makes. This gives the Soldier no motivation to improve and progress. The Soldier then feeds the leaders' bad image of him/her, which in turn encourages the leadership to put that Soldier under a microscope, looking for the smallest deficiency in order to slap him/her down again with punishment. The cycle continues until the Soldier ETSes or is chaptered out. Then we wonder why junior Enlisted Soldiers write "FTA" on every vertical surface they can find.

As leaders, we have to ask ourselves if we are being fair to our Soldiers. Does one screw-up doom a Soldier to this self-fulfilling prophecy and cycle of failure? Are we poisoning the well, making success impossible? As has been pointed out before, we have to look beneath the surface and see where repeated problems are coming from. Are there family, health, money, etc. issues that are at the root of the problems? Has the Soldier been beaten down by the cycle I described above? There is usually an answer to repeat issues in Soldiers. We are professionals and leaders. Tossing Soldiers into the garbage after labeling them "shitbags" or "problem children" etc. after poor performance does a disservice to the Soldier, your professionalism, your unit, and the Army as a whole. The Army invested in the Soldier; your failure as a leader to get a return on the Army's investment is a failure on every level.

So start talking to your "leadership challenges" and ask the right questions. What you find out may surprise you, and you may find a great Soldier under all the garbage you have tossed on him/her.

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SFC Mark Merino

>1 y

There is nothing worse than a new leader coming in and asking who the problem kids are. I always said 'Sir, I reserve my comments until you have come to your own conclusions'. I've seen more than one trooper get grandfathered into the worthless POS category. Not saying our assessments are always wrong, but.....

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CPT Aaron Kletzing

Posted 10 y ago

This is a tough question to answer because while you're right that every unit has "that" member, every situation is different. The problem could be at home. The problem could be no motivation. The problem could even be boredom and not being challenged the right way. If the problem is actually at home with his family, etc. - then I hope we would agree that the CoC needs to help him get those issues resolved in a healthy manner, versus just chaptering the guy. So, it's hard for me to say a general response for every situation.  I do like this thread, though - thanks for starting it!

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CPL(P) (Join to see)

10 y

I agree sir, I've seen soldiers lose interest in their job because it's standing somewhere for 8 hours waiting to be told to do a layout. They lose the taste for the work. Honestly, I've seen my peers given responsibilities and they do wonders when they feel important, or at the least. Ready to be tested on more than running, and jumping. Diversity makes a big difference.

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SGM (Join to see)

10 y

CPT Kletzing nailed it! What is the underlying problem? Once you get to that the rest can be easy to fix. We call those Soldiers Leadership challenges. They aren't easy but of course being a Leader isn't easy either.<div><br></div><div>Chances are if the Soldiers Leader invests some time into that Soldier they will improve and become better Soldiers. Some of my best Soldiers have been ones that just couldn't get it together at one point and time.</div>

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SSG (Join to see)

10 y

"you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink"... but what kind of water are you trying to give it? Maybe it would drink some if it was good water...You can show a SM how to do something, if you arent DOING what you are showing them, why should they do it. Hence the whole "Do as I say, not as I do". Some Soldiers need a good example, some just need a little push, some need a ticket home.

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SFC (Join to see)

10 y

PFC Ludwig, i believe the point you are trying to make is that we need to empower the Service Members under our tutelage. This would give a greater sense of motivation

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GySgt (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

Ive never had a Marine who had all of those but I do believe the ones with lesser abilities can be polished but there are the very few who really don't care for improvement and will not improve.

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Is a turd still a turd, or can you polish it?

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