Posted on Nov 21, 2021
Psychological Operations or Civil Affairs? Which is a better fit?
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Hello, I would really appreciate career advice from military and civilian folks alike. I've spoken to recruiters, but would also like advice and thoughts from people who don't have a different mindset/motivation.
I've been a 35F (intel analyst) for about 3.5yrs, but only sparsely done actual intel work. I am currently in SFAB, but looking at other options because while SFAB has been a great opportunity, and I am thankful to have been accepted, it has not been a good fit for me. I am still relatively new to the Army.
Long-term goal:
My ultimate goal is to have a cushy civilian life with good pay and work/life balance near my parents in LA. Data analytics looks like a good option. However, I still have 2.5yrs left in the Army. I'm getting old compared to my coworkers (29yrs) and I need to make good career decisions fast.
I am looking at either Civil Affairs or Psychological Operations because I have been told that the work they do is a good fit for someone like me who has a strong academic background with a marked interest in anthropology, history, and culture.
If I make it into either of these fields I will probably put in an OCS packet as well--I have huge college debt and I'm better at desk work anyways.
I am also worried that joining CA or PsyOps will put extra years into my Army contract which means I'll be even older when I finally apply for civilian jobs (around mid-30s).
My interaction with foreigners:
I love interacting with people of different cultures and most foreigners seem to take an interest in me for being an Indian man who is also American. They tend to trust me more regarding their personal thoughts and lives. I believe they see me as different from the stereotypical arrogant American. This is something that has garnered suspicion, jealousy, and irritation from fellow SFAB members and regular Army folk. I have a vast knowledge of history which translates to awareness of geo-politics. Recruiters and my former 1SG have told me that CA (or even PsyOps) are good places for these particular traits.
My education:
-Carnegie Mellon University--BS in Decision Science with an additional major in Policy & Management
-Associates in Intelligence Application Studies
-Certificate in Cybersecurity
-Johns Hopkins University--Starting a Masters in Data Analytics & Policy with a Certificate in Intelligence in 2022
Civilian experience prior to enlistment:
-Data operations for market research analysis for the Hollywood film industry
-Ethnography for consumer product marketing.
I've been a 35F (intel analyst) for about 3.5yrs, but only sparsely done actual intel work. I am currently in SFAB, but looking at other options because while SFAB has been a great opportunity, and I am thankful to have been accepted, it has not been a good fit for me. I am still relatively new to the Army.
Long-term goal:
My ultimate goal is to have a cushy civilian life with good pay and work/life balance near my parents in LA. Data analytics looks like a good option. However, I still have 2.5yrs left in the Army. I'm getting old compared to my coworkers (29yrs) and I need to make good career decisions fast.
I am looking at either Civil Affairs or Psychological Operations because I have been told that the work they do is a good fit for someone like me who has a strong academic background with a marked interest in anthropology, history, and culture.
If I make it into either of these fields I will probably put in an OCS packet as well--I have huge college debt and I'm better at desk work anyways.
I am also worried that joining CA or PsyOps will put extra years into my Army contract which means I'll be even older when I finally apply for civilian jobs (around mid-30s).
My interaction with foreigners:
I love interacting with people of different cultures and most foreigners seem to take an interest in me for being an Indian man who is also American. They tend to trust me more regarding their personal thoughts and lives. I believe they see me as different from the stereotypical arrogant American. This is something that has garnered suspicion, jealousy, and irritation from fellow SFAB members and regular Army folk. I have a vast knowledge of history which translates to awareness of geo-politics. Recruiters and my former 1SG have told me that CA (or even PsyOps) are good places for these particular traits.
My education:
-Carnegie Mellon University--BS in Decision Science with an additional major in Policy & Management
-Associates in Intelligence Application Studies
-Certificate in Cybersecurity
-Johns Hopkins University--Starting a Masters in Data Analytics & Policy with a Certificate in Intelligence in 2022
Civilian experience prior to enlistment:
-Data operations for market research analysis for the Hollywood film industry
-Ethnography for consumer product marketing.
Posted in these groups: 
PSYOP Specialist
Civil Affairs
Civilian Career
Career Counselor
Career Advice
PSYOP Specialist Civil Affairs Civilian Career Career Counselor Career Advice
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 4
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First, there is no reason you can't have a cushy job after retiring from the military. Yes you would be retiring in your late 40's but that is still about 15 years of a pension with enough free money to do any job you like until you pull retirement social security.
Civil affairs is probably the best fit for your skill set. You won't be doing a lot of data analytics or any cyber security, but those skills can come in handy. At some point your data management will likely become very helpful in your job, but it won't ever be the base of your job. Kind of like for me as a Career Counselor, having database experience is extremely beneficial and marketable within my field, but I don't need it to do my job. When you are working with a foreign country, handling large amounts of data, being able to see, plot, and explain trends will be a massive assistance. Data don't lie.
Anything you choose to do in the Army right now will add additional time to your obligation. Even PCSing from SFAB will incur a service obligation. If you go to MISO (Psyops), SF or CA, you can expect about five years from the day you get selected. About a year of training and a three year obligation from the date you finish. OCS will require at least a three year obligation as well. Everything adds time.
SFAB is a poor fit for you because it is not designed for initial term Soldiers. The model is meant for experienced NCOs, it's a more formal version of the old MTT teams. As an initial term Soldier you should have never gone with as little experience as you had, but the SFAB needed people when they first stood up. That's not to say you are a bad fit, only that you would have probably been a much better fit once you had some more NCO and Army experience under your belt. The job of SFAB is to stand up and train a conventional Army, you are not a Soldier that meets the normal conventional model because you are older, more educated, and more experience. So, it's not a good fit for you at the start of your career.
There is no student loan repayment program for going into OCS. I certainly hope you took the student loan repayment program (SLRP) when you enlisted, but now that you are in, there is no SLRP for your. There is a SLRP offered by the Reserves and National Guard if you choose to separate, up to $60k. Of course, a few years as an officer with OE pay and you can pay your student loans off on your own. Or a few years in CA and saving your TDY money might also help cover that cost. Point is, there are plenty of monetary incentives, you don't need to become an officer just to pay back student debt. If you do it for that reason, you might find that you absolutely hate it.
Civil affairs is probably the best fit for your skill set. You won't be doing a lot of data analytics or any cyber security, but those skills can come in handy. At some point your data management will likely become very helpful in your job, but it won't ever be the base of your job. Kind of like for me as a Career Counselor, having database experience is extremely beneficial and marketable within my field, but I don't need it to do my job. When you are working with a foreign country, handling large amounts of data, being able to see, plot, and explain trends will be a massive assistance. Data don't lie.
Anything you choose to do in the Army right now will add additional time to your obligation. Even PCSing from SFAB will incur a service obligation. If you go to MISO (Psyops), SF or CA, you can expect about five years from the day you get selected. About a year of training and a three year obligation from the date you finish. OCS will require at least a three year obligation as well. Everything adds time.
SFAB is a poor fit for you because it is not designed for initial term Soldiers. The model is meant for experienced NCOs, it's a more formal version of the old MTT teams. As an initial term Soldier you should have never gone with as little experience as you had, but the SFAB needed people when they first stood up. That's not to say you are a bad fit, only that you would have probably been a much better fit once you had some more NCO and Army experience under your belt. The job of SFAB is to stand up and train a conventional Army, you are not a Soldier that meets the normal conventional model because you are older, more educated, and more experience. So, it's not a good fit for you at the start of your career.
There is no student loan repayment program for going into OCS. I certainly hope you took the student loan repayment program (SLRP) when you enlisted, but now that you are in, there is no SLRP for your. There is a SLRP offered by the Reserves and National Guard if you choose to separate, up to $60k. Of course, a few years as an officer with OE pay and you can pay your student loans off on your own. Or a few years in CA and saving your TDY money might also help cover that cost. Point is, there are plenty of monetary incentives, you don't need to become an officer just to pay back student debt. If you do it for that reason, you might find that you absolutely hate it.
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SGT (Join to see)
I appreciate the insights SFC! It does sound like CA is something that falls in my passion, while PsyOps seems to fit my education and civilian experience more. As far as loan repayment, both my initial recruiter and retention NCO told me it wasn't available. I'm managing well, just hope to make more out of the enormous amounts of money I sunk into a CMU degree. I do find myself better with desk jobs than handyman tasks. My initial reason to enlist was to guarantee an intelligence job and quickly get out...but I was seduced by the lure of SFAB and what folks told me about it.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) I'm sure some Psyoper is going to have my head for saying this, but Psyops is basically Public Affairs with a language skill in a Special Operations environment. There's more to it than that, but there is a reason that Psyops have slots in PAO units as broadening assignments making media/propaganda.
If that's what your skill set and experience are geared towards, then you have a good understanding of what they do.
As far as SLRP, only some people are offered the SLRP when they enlist initially. There is no SLRP offered by retention once you're in. If you take the SLRP when you enlist, you have to do three years to pay it back, and then another three years to be eligible for your GI Bill. Plus, you get taxed on it, so if you join with $60k of debt, the Army will pay $46,800 of your loan because 22% was taxed, leaving you with $13,200 remaining to pay on your own. The USAR and ARNG offer a SLRP to certain MOSs in critical need if you're qualified, but you're still getting taxed as well. You might actually find it easier and faster to pay off that $60k when you are getting paid on the OE1 and OE2 pay scale for three years.
If that's what your skill set and experience are geared towards, then you have a good understanding of what they do.
As far as SLRP, only some people are offered the SLRP when they enlist initially. There is no SLRP offered by retention once you're in. If you take the SLRP when you enlist, you have to do three years to pay it back, and then another three years to be eligible for your GI Bill. Plus, you get taxed on it, so if you join with $60k of debt, the Army will pay $46,800 of your loan because 22% was taxed, leaving you with $13,200 remaining to pay on your own. The USAR and ARNG offer a SLRP to certain MOSs in critical need if you're qualified, but you're still getting taxed as well. You might actually find it easier and faster to pay off that $60k when you are getting paid on the OE1 and OE2 pay scale for three years.
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OK, to be truthful, don't like your reasons, but I'm considered a dinosaur. Your reason, your life. Psyops is basically messing with folks' minds. Civil Affairs is helping folks set up a government, schools, water treatment, basic health services. I definitely think that would have good civilian adaptations.
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SGT (Join to see)
I understand SGM. My reasons are certainly more self-serving than the traditional or ideal reasons to do anything in the military. However, I hope to give the military a good return on investment by doing a job where my skills and interests would be a good fit--history, culture, anthropology geo-politics and data analysis are things I would gladly dedicate time and effort to be great in.
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If you have less than 3 years left in the Army so any move to a new job field would require additional time added to your contract. You'll need to decide if you want to stay in the Army longer or not. That's up to you. If you want to make the Army home that's your choice. You could always transition to reserves/guard as a way to have your cake and eat it too. That would also support you moving jobs.
Why aren't you pursuing a Commission? That seems like a more logical choice given your educational background.
Why aren't you pursuing a Commission? That seems like a more logical choice given your educational background.
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SGT (Join to see)
That's definitely a good question SSgt, I've been asked that many times, which has made me question my decisions as well. I enlisted because I wanted to guarantee a job in intelligence. I do understand I'm losing out on a lot of money and perhaps the management experience. This was supposed to be temporary, but the lure of SFAB seduced me into reenlisting. It's a fairly good work/pay ratio, but I should definitely push myself further. If I do nothing now, I will probably just be sent to a regular units' S2 for 2.5 yrs till the end of the contract.
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