Posted on Dec 21, 2014
Would you chapter a problem Soldier out 6 months from ETS?
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Over and done with. But the question still stands.
Scenario:
Problem soldier, 6 months from ETS.
-Late, to everything
-Smart Mouth, sarcasm, questions authority
-Off Duty behavior is highrisk, and unprofessional
-Hides behind NCO's that are his friends (They must go fishing)
Ready? GO!
Scenario:
Problem soldier, 6 months from ETS.
-Late, to everything
-Smart Mouth, sarcasm, questions authority
-Off Duty behavior is highrisk, and unprofessional
-Hides behind NCO's that are his friends (They must go fishing)
Ready? GO!
Counseling
Leadership
Advice
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 40
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Hello SGT. As bad as it sounds, you should probably chapter this guy. The process would serve three purposes. 1. The individual is given his reward for his actions. 2. Other marginal performers will (hopefully) take the chapter as a warning. 3. Nothing reduces morale like carrying a marginal performer and watching them "get away with it." The chaptering of this individual will remind the harder working soldiers that leadership is paying attention and is more than willing to enforce the rules in order to get the job done.
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SGT (Join to see)
Spot on, CPO Penkin. Your #3 is what kills me. It's tempting to just give up and work to the lowest level since that's what leaders seem to want.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
#4 He could re-up at the last minute, and without a chapter and/or (and, IMO) a bar, you and the Army could be stuck with him until RCP.
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CPO Bernie Penkin
Hello SPC Shelby and LTC. Used to frustrate me to no end having to cover the work of the lowest performer like the exampled soldier.
Had a guy like this in the Navy. My division officer bent over backwards for retention and convinced the guy to re-enlist. The sailor continued to screw up and got a bonus for doing so. I got out.
Had a guy like this in the Navy. My division officer bent over backwards for retention and convinced the guy to re-enlist. The sailor continued to screw up and got a bonus for doing so. I got out.
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It's not really you deciding the fate of his career... he is deciding his own. If he has never really been a proper soldier, and has exhibited what you describe as "Disrespect, dereliction, failure to report, disobey a direct order" -- and won't do anything he's supposed to reasonably do -- then I don't see how he deserves the same Honorable Discharge that every other Soldier does. If he is derelict of his duty, and won't even put in the common respect to not be a nuisance for his last few months, then he has sealed the fate of his own career, in my view.
Just being close to ETS doesn't mean somebody can be derelict of their duty and have no consequence.
Just being close to ETS doesn't mean somebody can be derelict of their duty and have no consequence.
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There are several issues here that must be addressed. Unless this is the only Soldier in your unit, which I am sure that is not the case, you have a number of "on the fence" Soldiers just waiting to see what happens to your troop with motivation issues. You owe it to them and the Army to initiate Chapter procedings. This will send a clear message to the troops sitting on the fence....THIS ACTION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED....
You also owe the Taxpayers...A chapter 14-12 takes away benefits that as a veteran he/she can use to get a better job or further his/her education. This is a real hard line in the sand, but he/she did sign a contract stating that they would follow the direction and orders of those appointed over them in accordance to regulation and the Uniform Code of Military Justice...
Based on the trail that I read before I started writing, you should have no issues making this "Soldier" either toe the line or join the unemployment line. Show him what he is about to lose when you read the Counseling and what a 14-12 takes away. you don't have time to coddle this Soldier. Treat them fair, but set clear standards of performance and hold them all to them. You will be surprised how fast it becomes known that you will fix or fire someone with less than a year left. people will behave and do what is expected of them.
You also owe the Taxpayers...A chapter 14-12 takes away benefits that as a veteran he/she can use to get a better job or further his/her education. This is a real hard line in the sand, but he/she did sign a contract stating that they would follow the direction and orders of those appointed over them in accordance to regulation and the Uniform Code of Military Justice...
Based on the trail that I read before I started writing, you should have no issues making this "Soldier" either toe the line or join the unemployment line. Show him what he is about to lose when you read the Counseling and what a 14-12 takes away. you don't have time to coddle this Soldier. Treat them fair, but set clear standards of performance and hold them all to them. You will be surprised how fast it becomes known that you will fix or fire someone with less than a year left. people will behave and do what is expected of them.
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG Jason Fitzpatrick is correct, the Soldier stands to lose much in way of benefits. As ugly as it sounds, you can do everything to help the Soldier but you must protect the governments interests.
So adding to what 1SG stated:
a. Only for discharge under paragraphs 14-12a and l4-12b, the Soldier must be formally
counseled in writing at least once prior to initiation of the chapter action. The counseling must include: the counseling; the fact that separation action may be initiated if the behavior continues,the type of discharge that could result from the possible separation action and the effect of each. The soldier is given a reasonable time to correct his deficiencies (Para l-18b, AR 635-200).
b. Again, only for discharge under paragraphs 14-12a and 14-12b, the Soldier must
transferred once with at least two months of duty in each unit, between battalion size or larger units. The separation authority can waive this transfer requirement if further duty by the Soldier would cause disciplinary problems or if the member is resisting rehabilitative efforts.
c. Discharge under paragraph 14-l2c does not require the above rehabilitation and
counseling.
d. The Soldier must be given a proper medical examination and mental status evaluation.
Now, the big question is, has everything been done to rehabilitate the SM or did we just say F*** it, cut this one loose? Has the Commander directed a mental health eval, what's on this SM's mind? As for this mentor, was this the SM's sponsor coming to the unit? If so, who assigned this person to be the sponsor(mentor)? Did anyone contact their last unit to see how this Soldier was prior to arriving?
I see no mention of NJP, so has this been done?, maybe this may be a motivator? BAR can be initiated, may perhaps lifted if Soldier shows a lot of improvement. So many variables, so many tools to use, one will have to see what happens. High road or low road.
So adding to what 1SG stated:
a. Only for discharge under paragraphs 14-12a and l4-12b, the Soldier must be formally
counseled in writing at least once prior to initiation of the chapter action. The counseling must include: the counseling; the fact that separation action may be initiated if the behavior continues,the type of discharge that could result from the possible separation action and the effect of each. The soldier is given a reasonable time to correct his deficiencies (Para l-18b, AR 635-200).
b. Again, only for discharge under paragraphs 14-12a and 14-12b, the Soldier must
transferred once with at least two months of duty in each unit, between battalion size or larger units. The separation authority can waive this transfer requirement if further duty by the Soldier would cause disciplinary problems or if the member is resisting rehabilitative efforts.
c. Discharge under paragraph 14-l2c does not require the above rehabilitation and
counseling.
d. The Soldier must be given a proper medical examination and mental status evaluation.
Now, the big question is, has everything been done to rehabilitate the SM or did we just say F*** it, cut this one loose? Has the Commander directed a mental health eval, what's on this SM's mind? As for this mentor, was this the SM's sponsor coming to the unit? If so, who assigned this person to be the sponsor(mentor)? Did anyone contact their last unit to see how this Soldier was prior to arriving?
I see no mention of NJP, so has this been done?, maybe this may be a motivator? BAR can be initiated, may perhaps lifted if Soldier shows a lot of improvement. So many variables, so many tools to use, one will have to see what happens. High road or low road.
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SFC (Join to see)
I say Chapter. If you have troops that are young and eager to learn how to be outstanding Soldiers this guy have to go. He will poison the others and you will see an up rise in attitude. It's unfortunate that you have lost a troop but always remember that if you and your peers have given your all to rehabilitate this guy and he is still sinking you have to do what's best for your team. Best of luck in this situation.
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