Posted on Mar 30, 2017
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Awards, Fair to Unfair?

I've been listening to a lot of people discuss Awards given for missions, achievement, etc. We've all heard the story of the guy who got a BSM for sitting in a tent while the people taking fire got an AAM or ARCOM. We've all heard the story of a guy who was awarded a BSM-V but downgraded to an ARCOM-V. We've also heard about awards being given out like candy in some instances.

How and why?
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Responses: 13
ENS Naval Officer   Ip Student
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In the Navy, it's hard enough to get a NAM. To get a COM, you almost certainly need to be E7 or above; doesn't matter if you out perform your E7 or are holding an E7 position. From my understanding, getting a BSM in the Army is easier than getting an ARCOM, but getting a BSM in the Navy practically takes an act of heroism. Most guys I know get Letters of Commendation (essentially worthless by all means). I have seen Flag Letter of Commendations given out (I myself have received two instead of a NAM). With a FLOC you at least get a point awarded to you on your advancement exam. I'm getting a little off topic, however. Earning ribbons and medals that actually mean anything in the Navy is pretty difficult, but a lot of it depends on your job, right time, right place, right Chain of Command. I know ITs who have went above and beyond and got nothing, but a thank you, while there have been YNs who, based on their high visibility seating, have been awarded SPOT NAMs.. As already stated, life is not fair. Just look at the SEALs. Someone will get a NAM for restocking a vending machine and the Navy SEAL who went through hell on some deadly high-tier mission won't have anything to show for it. In the Navy, it's really about your sense of self and internal pride. Pretty crazy really. I try not to get caught up in the chest candy game. Getting recognized does feel good and definitely boosts moral; I personally would love to have more stars, ribbons, and medals, but I take enough pride in knowing that I am doing my best and making sure my people get promoted. No ribbon will ever replace the feeling of knowing you played a critical role in someone's career.
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LCDR Vice President
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7 y
I got a spot NAM from Adm Boorda once. I had to fight for years to get it in my record.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
7 y
Back in my day, NAMs were guaranteed for reenlistment. COMs were guaranteed for retirement. Our LOC's were different tho. As long as the LOC wasn't from your command, it was worth a point. So Squadron LOCs were great and Group LOCs were even better (Admiral)! The limit was six points per year.
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TSgt Bruce Davis
TSgt Bruce Davis
7 y
8dfa00cb
i give you a BRAVO ZULU, P01 Martin! Well deserved!
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GySgt Bill Smith
GySgt Bill Smith
7 y
SGT Sean Goodrow - Well, I would say the scuttlebutt comes from just seeing lots of E-6 and above having BS. When I was in the Marines, you better of killed like 5 guys or saved someones life by putting your own life in danger. Pull into a NG parking lot, its not uncommon to see multiple BS licence plates.
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CPT Jack Durish
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Didn't mama ever tell you that life isn't fair? "Fairness" in the awarding of recognition for valor, service, and achievement will always be elusive because it depends upon too many variables. It starts with the recommendation (or lack of recommendation). Did anyone witness the act or event? How fair is the witness (will their attitude towards the candidate for honor unduly influence their decision to submit or not submit a recommendation)? How well is the recommendation crafted? Few people are well-versed in giving testimony, especially in writing. And that only begins the path to recognition being awarded. No, it isn't fair, never will be. It simply is what it is. Ultimately, we all must try our best and hope for the best. As a former chief of Awards & Decorations for the 9th Infantry Division in Vietnam, I know this very well and boy could I tell you stories... (Actually, I have but they're lost somewhere among the forest of discussions on RP. You can also find them in my Vietnam weblog postings. http://www.jackdurish.com/jacks-blog/category/vietnam
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GySgt Bill Smith
GySgt Bill Smith
7 y
90% of my patrols were done without any higher ups around. How was I supposed to be observed for an award. Its a shit system.
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CPT Jack Durish
CPT Jack Durish
7 y
GySgt Bill Smith - An action doesn't have to be observed by a superior. Anyone can witness an act of valor. Sometimes, the results speak for themselves. I once heard a story of a soldier found mortally wounded in Korea surrounded by the bodies of many dead enemy, their heads crushed by the entrenching tool he clutched.
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GySgt Bill Smith
GySgt Bill Smith
7 y
CPT Jack Durish - This is a great example for an award like the MOH, but not very fitting for lower awards.
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CPT Jack Durish
CPT Jack Durish
7 y
GySgt Bill Smith - Of course, the example was extreme. Forgive me with not belaboring the members of RP with a few hundred other example spanning the full range of awards, high and low. Still, I stand by my statement that anyone can bear witness to an act deserving recognition. My comments focused on the importance of having that witness well-represented in written testimony. The unfairness is rooted in the fact that few are so equipped. This is why someone like me was chosen to document important awards. I wish I could have done more
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited 7 y ago
For some silly reason......even though the regs say otherwise about basing awards off of rank......a lot of highers will use rank to base what award they should warrant. That is one reason. Another reason is how the award is written up and if there is enough punch to the bullets to strengthen the award recommendation. Poorly written award recommendations will always get lowered. That's another. And then, of course, you just have some plain old bias when it comes to awards and the approval/downgrade. Is the system fair? Certainly not. And I find the 638 form a little biased in itself. When you go to the block to add what awards the recommendee already has....the options are few in comparison to what they wear on their chest.....which some use to base the approval/downgrade as well. For example, I have 12 ribbons on my chest salad (and I can only select 2 or 3 of the listed awards on the 638)....I was promoted into the Detachment Sergeant position (SFC position) when I was still a SGT, and an MSM is being written up for my PCS. I am, honestly, not holding my breath that I will get the MSM........even with the strong bullets that have been written.
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LCDR Vice President
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I am just glad I got to put it on my plates.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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SPC Member
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7 y
Seven? Wow.
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LCDR Vice President
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CWO2 S R - All in all I really do not care, someone I know very well got one as a reservist and did not even show up for most of the required time. In the end I think we get repaid in better ways.
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