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LTC Vindman retires, was he right or wrong? What about the second and third order effects?
Aside from the usually partisan (and superficial) comments regarding LTC (R) Vindman, is there a lesson to be learned here? We had a sitting US senator holding up promotion for 1000 senior officers to allow for his promotion. Whistleblowing. Polarizing politics and the politicalization of the military seems to be here for the duration. While the retired could easily just take pot shots from Ft. Living Room, here's my question. How can currently serving members truly remain apolitical? In a world where one callus post can end your career, use some judgment if you elect to weigh in. Was he right? Would you have done the same? Was he dead wrong?
Aside from the usually partisan (and superficial) comments regarding LTC (R) Vindman, is there a lesson to be learned here? We had a sitting US senator holding up promotion for 1000 senior officers to allow for his promotion. Whistleblowing. Polarizing politics and the politicalization of the military seems to be here for the duration. While the retired could easily just take pot shots from Ft. Living Room, here's my question. How can currently serving members truly remain apolitical? In a world where one callus post can end your career, use some judgment if you elect to weigh in. Was he right? Would you have done the same? Was he dead wrong?
ar-BB17s1rL
Posted from msn.com
Lessons Learned
Political Correctness
Congress
COL
Social Media
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 285
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The lesson to be learned is don't be a political hack and stooge while your wearing the uniform. He should have got an article 88 referral to a court martial and booted out sans retirement. What a stain.
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SPC Kent Laughlin
SPC Mark Marquette I left Vietnam just before that clown joey started his political graft career. That bag of manure voted with the other bags of manure in order to ending air support for the ARVN in favor of being re elected to continue to screw the American public.. He and the others crapped on nearly 60,000 of us who did not survive the conflict and he assisted the communists in the destruction of South Vietnam where many died who should have lived even if it were in a country divided much the same as Korea. This bunch of Trump haters have not got a clue as to the truth and now you are asking why I am bad mouthing that jerk off from Kenya and the scum bag from Delaware ? That is selective historical research by them Mark... They seem to forget that the democrat trash bags have been attempting to ambush Trump from before he was even nominated and with good reason although that "good reason is NOT due to any criminal activity on DJTs part it is to make sure that the real cartel, the one that is more powerful and more dirty than the mafia can continue to send their front men to DC to rape and plunder the US.. When I first got on this site it was to search for and hopefully contact friends from Nam and it was suggested that it was not to be a political forum ... instead it has turned into a romper room of the uninformed that has the same line of horse dung as twatter had before Elon Musk threw out the leftist children that blocked us from telling the truth. At 75 I do not need mental midgets and commie indoctrination when searching for friends that put their lives on the line only to be schitt on by politicians like biden or the clown from Africa.. My dislike for Kenyan is not based on his African roots, too many great troops of color gave their lives for folks in the jungles in an effort to help them run their country with self determination and the politicians used their bodies like door mats ...
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SPC Mark Marquette
Spouting a whole LOT of garbage! All verifying a lack of real intelligence - which, of course, you would suppress/deny as a grunt, cannon fodder.
I cannot fathom how the FUCK you associate Biden with 'Nam?!!Really twisted thinking!! But why aren't you ragging on Trump, the fucking coward! "Bone spurs", paid forby rich, disgusting Nazi Daddy!
You don't have the logic, rationality to engage in any discussion. I'm out of here.
I cannot fathom how the FUCK you associate Biden with 'Nam?!!Really twisted thinking!! But why aren't you ragging on Trump, the fucking coward! "Bone spurs", paid forby rich, disgusting Nazi Daddy!
You don't have the logic, rationality to engage in any discussion. I'm out of here.
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Wrong... He lied on federal document.. Commuted perjury, and contempt to a public official
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Cpl Don Jensen
Cpl Benjamin Long - No, he doesn't because they can never support their argument with facts!
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The military is supposed to be above politics. Someone's promotion was held up? Boo hoo!
Politicians of all parties do all kinds of bad things, but they have the right to expect those working directly for them aren't going to be spies for the hysterical news media. We all know that we cannot campaign for anyone while in uniform, and that includes campaigning against anyone. LTC Vindman should have put on his big boy panties, and retired, if he wanted to involve himself in politics. Or he could have reported his suspicions to the Inspector General, not joined the media circus of those who for 3 years have been unwilling to accept the results of the election of 2016.
I am not a Trump supporter. He's rude, crude, and a loudmouth. But the more he is attacked by those with a political agenda, the more sympathetic I am.
Politicians of all parties do all kinds of bad things, but they have the right to expect those working directly for them aren't going to be spies for the hysterical news media. We all know that we cannot campaign for anyone while in uniform, and that includes campaigning against anyone. LTC Vindman should have put on his big boy panties, and retired, if he wanted to involve himself in politics. Or he could have reported his suspicions to the Inspector General, not joined the media circus of those who for 3 years have been unwilling to accept the results of the election of 2016.
I am not a Trump supporter. He's rude, crude, and a loudmouth. But the more he is attacked by those with a political agenda, the more sympathetic I am.
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SPC Mark Marquette
Everything anyone in Congress, the WH is political! How could it be other? For MTG, Beauburp, Gatz... "political" means anything they don't like!
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SPC Mark Marquette
"Political agenda" is a meaningless epithet! The BUSINESS of Congress is politics, agendas. Just childish name-calling.
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He testified to 100% third party hear say. He felt he knew of a problem and reported it. That's where the problems start. I a sane world there would be an investigation. Real witnesses would be called. they would give testimony to facts they witnessed. None of that happened. He was called and tried to save a sinking ship. As a loyal officer? he went down with it.
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It was wrong. It was a clear example of why you never mix politics with military service. You take a risk and someone always gets burned. Even though the military has it's own form of politics and ticket punching, we are warriors trained and skilled in the defense of this country and our Constitution, where political parties are supposed to be neutral distinctions.
Ever wonder what might have happened if this guy was enlisted and not a field grade officer?
While we are not "yes men," functioning in the confines of the UCMJ and appropriate orders, we are also not supposed to be career opportunists who are looking for the next book deal.
Ultimately, he took a risk motivated by his own agenda -- right or wrong -- when he should have elevated the issue within his military chain of command, and then shut up. Leave it to the upper echelons to resolve. Instead we have the after-effect of another former military officer, now operating in the political arena, using military members as pawns to further her own political agenda related to the first individual's bad career choices.
I'll bet you we have not seen the last of this field grade officer. He now pens op-ed pieces. Want to bet how soon he ends up on some congressional payroll or as a high-paid media consultant?
Ever wonder what might have happened if this guy was enlisted and not a field grade officer?
While we are not "yes men," functioning in the confines of the UCMJ and appropriate orders, we are also not supposed to be career opportunists who are looking for the next book deal.
Ultimately, he took a risk motivated by his own agenda -- right or wrong -- when he should have elevated the issue within his military chain of command, and then shut up. Leave it to the upper echelons to resolve. Instead we have the after-effect of another former military officer, now operating in the political arena, using military members as pawns to further her own political agenda related to the first individual's bad career choices.
I'll bet you we have not seen the last of this field grade officer. He now pens op-ed pieces. Want to bet how soon he ends up on some congressional payroll or as a high-paid media consultant?
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LTC (Join to see)
That is exactly the kind of smart dialogue RallyPoint needs. Thank you for your thoughts.
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SPC Mark Marquette
Does "defending the Constitution" mean seeing, alerting, combatting serious threats to our profile? IN THE MOMENT if considered serious enough. NOBODY here wants to put ANY 'responsibilty for this on Trump! THAT is the "military blind obedience that is terrifying!
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TREASON is not right. The military is under civilian control in the UNITED STATES. It must subordinate itself to the lawful exercise of that control. Moreover, it must never be in the pockets of foreign interests as Vindman was. And to participate actively in a coups attempt by the communists...! He needs to be in front of a military tribunal charged with TREASON and conspiracy against the Constitution, Republic, and the Liberty of the People NOW! Retirement is a disgrace.
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Let me put it this way... If you're going to fall on your sword, it better be worth the price you're asking everyone else to pay. In this case, I don't think it was. Personally, I think some Americans are living in a fantasy world where everyone is either "good" or "bad". The truth is that a great many "bad" people are acting daily for the common "good"... even though both are sometimes very difficult to define. Who are the "good guys"; Chechen "freedom fighters" who follow Islam... or Russian conscripts carrying Orthodox crosses? Which dictators should we oppose... those who gas their own citizens; or those who fund global terrorism? Vindman inserted himself into a political arena presumably because of conscience... so be it. He doesn't seem to have come out too bad for it either... as I suspect we won't be going to work at Walmart next week. Again, it's just my opinion... but if he wanted to make full bird or even flag, he would've had to realize that those promotions require political pragmatism-and Trump's a limited-time offer.
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SPC Mark Marquette
Convenient "ride it out" attitude. However: Trump was defying Congress, trying to use his power to corrupt others, create his "dynasty".
"Those who stand by and say nothing..."
"Those who stand by and say nothing..."
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Some can argue that LTC Vindeman was right in his actions, but under the UCMJ for the Officer Ranks when it comes to Politics. He violated those rules, as well as spotlighted his actions. Politically. Which is something No Officer in the military should ever do. Remember it was a Flag Officer during the Clinton Administration who made derogatory comments towards tge President William J. Clinton. Who was removed from his Command and forced Retired. All military should observe and learn what LTC Vindeman did was wrong. I for one think LTC Vindeman got off light. I still believe today he should have been Courts Martialed for his actions.
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It doesn't take much searching on the net to find opinions of his character from people who served with him. Vindman has a very low opinion of Americans and joked openly with Russian officers about us. So says LTC Hickman. Vindman had an advisory position and got his panties in a wad when Cinci didn't take his advice. He stated such in his testimony. The very same testimony where he said Trump didn't do anything impeachable. Vindman is a disgrace to the uniform and to all who wore it. Good riddance
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SPC Mark Marquette
And, oh, VERY easy to find multitudes of wanna-bes spouting off as if scouts were prowling these pages!
How many are even CLOSE to being valid - or have ANY evidence of reality?
Everyone gotta check in, big issue, big opinions.
How many are even CLOSE to being valid - or have ANY evidence of reality?
Everyone gotta check in, big issue, big opinions.
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