Posted on Oct 24, 2016
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Hacking
Russia
Intelligence
Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)
Iraq
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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Most of the intelligence agencies backing up the WMD claim in Iraq were basing their intel off a number of Iraqi sources, the most famous being "Curveball" (Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, a German citizen who defected from Iraq in 1999 and claimed one of Saddam's chemical engineers). CIA Director George Tenet considered the intel a "slam dunk", a sentiment echoed by the intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France. The removal of the IAEA and UN weapons inspectors really just exacerbated the situation.
They did actually find chemical weapons in Iraq, though not to the extent that the Bush administration was worried about prior to the invasion.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0
Iraq's number two man in charge of the Iraqi Air Force went so far as to write in 2006 that prior to the invasion, Iraq's chemical weapons had been sent to Syria via civilian airliners with the passenger seats removed.
To your point, when they say 17 intelligence, I know 16 agencies exist under our umbrella, those being:
US Army Intelligence & Security Command; 25th Air Force; Office of Naval Intelligence; Marine Corps Intelligence Activity; Coast Guard Intelligence; Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA); National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency; National Reconnaissance Office; National Security Agency (NSA); Central Intelligence Agency (CIA); FBI Intelligence Branch; DEA Office of National Security Intelligence; Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Analysis; State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research; Treasury Department Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence; Energy Department Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence.
Their statement is as follows "The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts." We know Guccifer 2.0 has a Russian IP address as well. To what end the Russians hope to achieve, one could only wonder. Democrats did nothing when Russia annexed Crimea, though IMO it was a conflict born of Soviet redistricting in the 1940s of Crimea to Ukraine, so there was a Russian claim to that particular territory. The Democrat administration again did nothing when the Russians got involved in Syria. If Democrats just roll over in the face of Russian aggression, wouldn't that be in their best self-interest rather than dealing with a more hawkish GOP? If someone has another theory, I'd be interested to hear it.
They did actually find chemical weapons in Iraq, though not to the extent that the Bush administration was worried about prior to the invasion.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0
Iraq's number two man in charge of the Iraqi Air Force went so far as to write in 2006 that prior to the invasion, Iraq's chemical weapons had been sent to Syria via civilian airliners with the passenger seats removed.
To your point, when they say 17 intelligence, I know 16 agencies exist under our umbrella, those being:
US Army Intelligence & Security Command; 25th Air Force; Office of Naval Intelligence; Marine Corps Intelligence Activity; Coast Guard Intelligence; Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA); National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency; National Reconnaissance Office; National Security Agency (NSA); Central Intelligence Agency (CIA); FBI Intelligence Branch; DEA Office of National Security Intelligence; Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Analysis; State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research; Treasury Department Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence; Energy Department Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence.
Their statement is as follows "The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts." We know Guccifer 2.0 has a Russian IP address as well. To what end the Russians hope to achieve, one could only wonder. Democrats did nothing when Russia annexed Crimea, though IMO it was a conflict born of Soviet redistricting in the 1940s of Crimea to Ukraine, so there was a Russian claim to that particular territory. The Democrat administration again did nothing when the Russians got involved in Syria. If Democrats just roll over in the face of Russian aggression, wouldn't that be in their best self-interest rather than dealing with a more hawkish GOP? If someone has another theory, I'd be interested to hear it.
BOMBSHELL: New York Times Reports WMDs WERE Found in Iraq! - The Political Insider
How many times have we been told that there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq? I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it millions of times. I’ve read stories …
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO2 William Allen Crowder - Its there in my profile: November 1986. And yes you're correct, you'd need to be qualified to stand most underway/inport watches except Topside Sentry and a few others.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO2 William Allen Crowder - So I take it that FTOW had a different meaning onboard your surface ship? On subs (when I was in), there were two flavors of FT; FT(G) and FT(B). B were the ballistic missile firers and they were in the Launcher Control Center in lower level. G were the old "Guns" designation from when subs had deck guns. They were attached to the Torpedo department and dealt with Torpedo Room weapons only. The Navy got rid of a lot of rates after I got out and I believe on submarines now, its just FT's. Not sure. Last time I was onboard an active boat was 2010.
So I take it you were a MK-10, MK-13, MK-26 or MK-41 tech?
So I take it you were a MK-10, MK-13, MK-26 or MK-41 tech?
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Capt (Join to see)
Outside the flamewar currently going on in this thread, I feel like this is a case of moving goalposts when we're saying that there was nothing there. Of course it didn't measure up to anything near what was being sold to the American public and they certainly didn't have any sophiscated delivery mechanism that we here are aware of absent the redacted CIA documents given the the NY Times. Arguing that the items were not devastating enough relative our nuclear submarine payload or mentioning that a non-state actor without the same resources used a different weapon under the umbrella of the same term (chemical) is a false equivalency. I posted from a liberal publication source after all, so if you're still bent on hating the ghost of George W. Bush, you can go on doing that while still accepting there was some level of illegal chemical weapons manufacturing happening in Iraq.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Capt (Join to see) -
Its not a false equivalency. WMD are not WMD unless they meet criteria. This should not be a difficult fact to swallow. This statement does not say that I hate Bush, am anti-American or prefer processed cheese to butter. Rusty shells with no way to get the shells to the target do not a WMD make. Were it THAT easy, then why have submarines or bombers? Surely all one would need is to just own the missile/bomb ITSELF, right? Nope. Doesn't work that way. If you can't **GET** that missile/bomb **OVER MY NATION** then you are no threat and your weapon is not a WMD. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
America knows it sold/provided X chemical artillery shells to Iraq at one time. Do we know how many they used? Do we know how many Desert Shield knocked out? Then by that yard stick alone, America didn't need "proof" did it? Of course they were there. So why the urgency to take them out in 2003? You can blame Clinton for missing them from his two terms but what excuse would Bush have? So the fact that Bush did not launch OIF in January of 2000 is telling.
What if they WERE making new chem shells? Making or buying still doesn't give them a delivery system. Weren't we (prior to the invasion) enforcing a no-fly zone, surgical strikes, etc? WHAT was actually left of their military infrastructure prior to OIF? With no Navy, Air Force or Army, Iraq could have been building one nuclear bomb a day and it wouldn't have made a difference unless they nuked themselves.
We lastly need to historically look at Israel. Israel bombed Syria AND they bombed Iraq. So the absence of any Israeli action against Iraq is the yardstick by which one measures middle Eastern seriousness. If Israel wasn't scared, we shouldn't have been either. The decision was made to invade for any excuse. Thousands died because of it.
Its not a false equivalency. WMD are not WMD unless they meet criteria. This should not be a difficult fact to swallow. This statement does not say that I hate Bush, am anti-American or prefer processed cheese to butter. Rusty shells with no way to get the shells to the target do not a WMD make. Were it THAT easy, then why have submarines or bombers? Surely all one would need is to just own the missile/bomb ITSELF, right? Nope. Doesn't work that way. If you can't **GET** that missile/bomb **OVER MY NATION** then you are no threat and your weapon is not a WMD. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
America knows it sold/provided X chemical artillery shells to Iraq at one time. Do we know how many they used? Do we know how many Desert Shield knocked out? Then by that yard stick alone, America didn't need "proof" did it? Of course they were there. So why the urgency to take them out in 2003? You can blame Clinton for missing them from his two terms but what excuse would Bush have? So the fact that Bush did not launch OIF in January of 2000 is telling.
What if they WERE making new chem shells? Making or buying still doesn't give them a delivery system. Weren't we (prior to the invasion) enforcing a no-fly zone, surgical strikes, etc? WHAT was actually left of their military infrastructure prior to OIF? With no Navy, Air Force or Army, Iraq could have been building one nuclear bomb a day and it wouldn't have made a difference unless they nuked themselves.
We lastly need to historically look at Israel. Israel bombed Syria AND they bombed Iraq. So the absence of any Israeli action against Iraq is the yardstick by which one measures middle Eastern seriousness. If Israel wasn't scared, we shouldn't have been either. The decision was made to invade for any excuse. Thousands died because of it.
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I believe the POTUS said it best "quit whining" as he ridiculed one candidate for following the similar behaviors when he was campaigning.
Hell, one current campaign has covered up, buried, lied, sold out the country for self interest, played the victim and constantly pandering to whomever they are around, and complained because they get hacked and the sheeple get to see a fraction of what is going on behind the scenes....suck it up cupcake!
Hell, one current campaign has covered up, buried, lied, sold out the country for self interest, played the victim and constantly pandering to whomever they are around, and complained because they get hacked and the sheeple get to see a fraction of what is going on behind the scenes....suck it up cupcake!
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And can't determine if Hillary's server was hacked. Who are the 17 agencies with names that said conclusively that the Russians did this?
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Capt (Join to see)
These are our intelligence agencies. I think Coast Guard intelligence is the 17th apparently.
https://www.intelligencecareers.gov/icmembers.html
https://www.intelligencecareers.gov/icmembers.html
IC Member Agencies | Intelligence Careers
The U.S. Intelligence Community consists of 16 agencies working under the coordination of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Learn more about each agency.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Capt (Join to see) - That answers half my question. The other half that conclusively stated the Russians did it. I have heard speculation, but if they said that, I missed the announcements.
Appreciate the listing, I hadn't seen the consolidated list.
Appreciate the listing, I hadn't seen the consolidated list.
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