Toxic Leadership
Toxic Leadership
Posted on Apr 5, 2024
How do you guys deal with very unhelpful chain of commands?
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I'm just gonna post a quick rant on what I've been dealing with personally. I've been trying for the past 5 months to get these orders for an ADOS position in which I have been chosen for by the gaining unit. Since this was my first time ever going through a process like this, I was given a POC for my S-3 to be able to ask any questions on what kind of paperwork I would need to create my packet. (I was ghosted for a majority of the time, no responses to my email).
I was informed that I needed to reenlist in order to qualify due to my ETS date being within 6 months, so of course I reenlisted for this sole purpose. It took me a while due to the fact that my previous retention NCO never bothered to submit the paperwork after agreeing to help me out. (He was an E-8 who was ready to retire so of course he didn't bother with my paperwrok). New Retention NCO comes around and submits my paper and everything looks well, right? New Retention NCO goes on leave. He comes back, helps me out and boom. My profile shows me new ETS date set for 2026, so nothing more can go wrong.
ToD packet is getting approved left and right until I hit a stop due to needing proof of my reenlistment, I'm confused because my new date should be already in the system. So they ask for a DA4856, so of course I ask my Retention NCO about it. He agrees to send me the signed docs once he has the chance. Promises me to send it later, then tomorrow. It's been almost 3 weeks and he has not picked up his phone or responded to my emails.
I understand whenever you want to benefit yourself from the Army, you have to put in your own effort. But is this really and issue that we should learn to deal with instead of just making ourselves better, I understand everyone has their own issues in life. But don't make false promises to your lower enlisted or refuse to communicate with one another.
I apologize for the rant, just needed to vent a little and understand how you guys deal with your difficulties in the services.
I was informed that I needed to reenlist in order to qualify due to my ETS date being within 6 months, so of course I reenlisted for this sole purpose. It took me a while due to the fact that my previous retention NCO never bothered to submit the paperwork after agreeing to help me out. (He was an E-8 who was ready to retire so of course he didn't bother with my paperwrok). New Retention NCO comes around and submits my paper and everything looks well, right? New Retention NCO goes on leave. He comes back, helps me out and boom. My profile shows me new ETS date set for 2026, so nothing more can go wrong.
ToD packet is getting approved left and right until I hit a stop due to needing proof of my reenlistment, I'm confused because my new date should be already in the system. So they ask for a DA4856, so of course I ask my Retention NCO about it. He agrees to send me the signed docs once he has the chance. Promises me to send it later, then tomorrow. It's been almost 3 weeks and he has not picked up his phone or responded to my emails.
I understand whenever you want to benefit yourself from the Army, you have to put in your own effort. But is this really and issue that we should learn to deal with instead of just making ourselves better, I understand everyone has their own issues in life. But don't make false promises to your lower enlisted or refuse to communicate with one another.
I apologize for the rant, just needed to vent a little and understand how you guys deal with your difficulties in the services.
Posted in these groups: 
Toxic Leadership
Chain of Command
Toxic Leadership Chain of Command
Posted 25 d ago
Responses: 4
Short question – why didn’t you just download the DD 4 (reenlistment contract) from iPerms and upload/attach it to the TOD packet? I assume that's what they are looking for since a DA4856 is a counseling form.
Piecing together your gripes, your question about how do you deal with an unhelpful Chain of Command sounds to be inaccurate. It sounds like the issues you are having aren't with your CoC, but rather with the administrative bureaucracy in the process.
You've already mentioned how to deal with bureaucracy - do it yourself whenever feasible.
As for when those situations are not feasible, then do the same thing leadership does - follow a standard. The difference is that you can't set the standard for them to meet, but you can extract a standard from them and base your actions upon that.
No response by email or phone? Did you contact the unit Readiness NCO to check to see if the Retention NCO is there or having an issue? Did you ask them to pass a message to him? Did you go to his location to see him in person?
You have no way of knowing if there are extenuating circumstances that might be affecting this actions. If there isn't some other factor impacting on his actions, you would hope he perform his responsibilities in a professional manner, but as is often told to junior leaders - hope is not a viable course of action.
Remember - you can't control someone else's actions, you can only control your own actions and how you respond to theirs.
Piecing together your gripes, your question about how do you deal with an unhelpful Chain of Command sounds to be inaccurate. It sounds like the issues you are having aren't with your CoC, but rather with the administrative bureaucracy in the process.
You've already mentioned how to deal with bureaucracy - do it yourself whenever feasible.
As for when those situations are not feasible, then do the same thing leadership does - follow a standard. The difference is that you can't set the standard for them to meet, but you can extract a standard from them and base your actions upon that.
No response by email or phone? Did you contact the unit Readiness NCO to check to see if the Retention NCO is there or having an issue? Did you ask them to pass a message to him? Did you go to his location to see him in person?
You have no way of knowing if there are extenuating circumstances that might be affecting this actions. If there isn't some other factor impacting on his actions, you would hope he perform his responsibilities in a professional manner, but as is often told to junior leaders - hope is not a viable course of action.
Remember - you can't control someone else's actions, you can only control your own actions and how you respond to theirs.
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SGT (Join to see)
Currently my iPerms doesn't show that they have been uploaded as of yet, I'm not sure who I would reach out for those aside from my retention NCO. I do appreciate the assistance!
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COL Randall C.
SGT (Join to see) - Talk to your readiness NCO. Does your unit only have one authorized scan operator for uploading to iPerms? Possibly the DD4 is sitting in a pile waiting to be processed.
Go talk to the retention NCO in person first.
Go talk to the retention NCO in person first.
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It doesn't sound like your Chain of Command is unhelpful. Sounds like you have an issue with a couple specific individuals. Run paper yourself when possible but the biggest thing is to escalate to your immediate chain of command for assistance and document your ordeals with S3 and Retention. The admin process in general is a pain and you have to become the squeaky wheel to get the grease.
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SGT (Join to see)
I agree with you, like I mentioned on my post. Just a silly rant of having to deal with certain individuals. I shouldn't be labeling the command. Just want to know how others deal with these kind of issues.
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I'll spare everyone from my long narratives.
How I deal with something I want done that takes the time of others in my chain of command is:
I figure out what all needs to be signed, and then fill everything out within my ability to do so, and the objective is to give a BLUF of the action I desire with nothing more than the next level higher part of the chain to simply sign it without any further effort.
How I deal with something I want done that takes the time of others in my chain of command is:
I figure out what all needs to be signed, and then fill everything out within my ability to do so, and the objective is to give a BLUF of the action I desire with nothing more than the next level higher part of the chain to simply sign it without any further effort.
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