Posted on Sep 19, 2022
SSG Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.

I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.

Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...

Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.

To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
Edited 11 mo ago
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Responses: 153
CSM Eric Biggs
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This pisses me off! As a CSM this really pisses me off. That E5 was extremely wrong; disrespect, insubordinate, not leading the way (by not cleaning his weapon).
You should have put paper to pen and given him a counseling statement when he refused to follow your directions, covering everything. You were right to have the PL there with you. I probably would have briefed the LT prior to the conversation with that E5, and ask him if the E5 was argumentative, or insubordinate the LT could have given him a direct order. If he refused at that point because he is an AGR, the LT could push for an Article 15. I would have also skipped the CSM and taken the issue to the 1SG first.
Last but not least, the comments from the CSM, especially in front of the E5 were wrong. The CSM should have backed you up and fried that E5. If he holds his AGR's at a higher standard than TPU's (which is wrong), he really should have fried that E5. You are not supported by your CSM! I would look for a new home, since this leadership is garbage.
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SSG Gregg Mourizen
SSG Gregg Mourizen
2 mo
When all else fails, Couseling Statement and an unsat on the NCOER.
I hada similar situation. The SMran to the SFC and whined about it, before I got there. The SFC sided with him, with out hearing a word I had to say.
Afterwar, the E-5 strutted around like he got me. Until of course I wrote him a couseling about how to settle grievances at the lowest level and not to argue or disrespect senior NCOs in front of trainees. Yeah, he did that.
Of course he complained to the SFC, but he didn't follow up.
When NCOER time came up, I gave him the unsat and spelled out why. He complained to someone, because the the E-7 tried to get me to change the NCOER. He implied that higher ups wanted me to change it.
I told him no. I again explained what had happened and how the E-5 was acting afterwards. I showed him the Counseling statement and the quaterly review, supporting my rating. Strangely, he heard me that time, and I never heard a word about it from him after that. Note, it was the only unsat I had given in three years. Noone could say I was being a harda$$. The NCOER stood.
After that, no more problems with the E-5. It may, or may not have made a difference in him getting promoted, but it sure did change his attitude. No more attitude, no more tantrums, no more trying to go around me.
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CSM Eric Biggs
CSM Eric Biggs
2 mo
SSG Gregg Mourizen that is perfect!
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CWO4 Tim Hecht
CWO4 Tim Hecht
30 d
CSM Biggs I do agree with you that the CSM was way off base by his actions.
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SFC Joseph Behmke
SFC Joseph Behmke
29 d
SSG Gregg Mourizen - This is why we have a system. You just need to use it without being coerced by their section leader or friend.
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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You weren't wrong exactly, you were just using the wrong tool in your toolbox. Pushups are for painful lessons for Joe's, once you are an NCO your lessons have to involve a different type of pain. Professional pain like counseling, corrective action, additional duties, etc are what you need to use with NCOs. Grab the ear of a senior NCO you respect and ask them what they would have done in that situation and add that tool to your toolbox
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SFC Jerald Bottcher
SFC Jerald Bottcher
9 mo
SP5 Timothy Cooper - But he was refusing to be locked up to the position of attention
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SP5 Timothy Cooper
SP5 Timothy Cooper
8 mo
Okay in that case like SSgt Murphy said it is time for pen to paper. An a good hart to hart with the 1 SGT .
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SFC William Benner
SFC William Benner
7 mo
Being an NCO, he already knew what he was did wrong. Sounds like insubordination to me. Basic training tactics weren't right but I would have had pen and paper handy right away and gave him some serious extra training. If his subordinates saw this, it was the worst example he could set that also could affect his leadership ability going forward. His subordinates saw him do that, the they too would try it if they didn't know it was handled in a way they wouldn't want to happen to them. Paper must be involved for documentation purposes in caser it was needed later.
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SFC Howard Holmes
SFC Howard Holmes
4 mo
Writing it up, and ensuring that the issue of insubordination, actions unbecoming of an NCO, etc. properly reflect in his next NCOER.
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
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You shouldn’t have involved the Sgt Maj so early on.

You did right having the OIC there but you should have moved forward with putting pen to paper and make it official. You don’t bring the kid to the Sgt Maj in the heat of the moment. You don’t take it to them until it’s bullet proofed and vetted
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1SG Platoon Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
Great Advice. Can’t act on emotion.
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
SSgt Christophe Murphy
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) If you have proof that an E5 is using a personal relationship with an E8 to manipulate outcomes and cover his poor behavior that would be concerning for leadership. If you see something document it and report it
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SPC (Other / Not listed)
SPC (Join to see)
10 mo
SSG (Join to see) - Jason, it sounds as if the E-5 and his "personal relationships" with higher ups is fraught with codependency issues. These dysfunctions should be taken up with a superior who can take a look at this entire system.
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SPC Daniel Brown
SPC Daniel Brown
7 mo
Sounds like a Promotion and the sent to another unit was to appease the E5 now E6 and cover his behavior in you unit.
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