Posted on Apr 26, 2014
2 NCOs misconduct, looking at a prison sentence?
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I am very curious to see your responses here on this story.
If they are found guilty of selling military equipment, what's your recommendation for punishment? Why?
here's a link to the story:
http://www.stripes.com/news/army/fort-carson-sergeants-sought-on-suspicion-of-selling-stolen-military-equipment-1.280172
If they are found guilty of selling military equipment, what's your recommendation for punishment? Why?
here's a link to the story:
http://www.stripes.com/news/army/fort-carson-sergeants-sought-on-suspicion-of-selling-stolen-military-equipment-1.280172
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 27
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Theft is theft...period. Whether they are Privates, NCOs, LTCs or Generals. If its more than $50....its grand theft; its not tolerated in the civilian world and should not be tolerated in the military.
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COL (Join to see)
Well, I may be dating myself. 30 years ago growing up in Nebraska....it was over $50. Its based on the state where the crime was committed. I looked a few states up on line and lowest for Grand Theft was $250. So I guess by standards today...I'm a little behind the times. And no, I didn't learn about the $50 limit in Nebraska from first hand experience.
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COL (Join to see)
CSM, of course its not reality.....because more and more, people in society are allowed to find excuses for doing something unlawful, instead of taking responsibility for their actions and the consequences that come with those actions. Unfortunately, that same society allows some crimes to go unpunished or with light sentencing. Let's face it, the military in many cases holds our personnel to higher standards, or should at least strive to in order to uphold our citizens' trust and confidence.....that is why our military is continually one of the most trusted public instituitions in our country. I agree that our military judicial system is not fair across the board based on rank, and in my opinion, officers that do wrong should experience a greater degree of punishment for the crimes they commit. CSM, you are the voice of the enlisted man in the command team...the next time an officer gets in trouble, you owe it to your enlisted soldiers and the commander to let them know how certain levels of punishment will be viewed within the ranks. I came up the ranks from the enlisted corps and whenever I had to meat out punishment to an officer, I always kept that in the back of my mind.
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Violates Army values; the law; the public trust; lowers unit readiness...enough said.
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Depends on what's stolen/sold...in this case, selling night-vision goggles (and silencers), I voted for the max.
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Article 108: Military property of the
United States—sale, loss, damage,
destruction, or wrongful disposition. e. Maximum punishment. (1) Selling or otherwise disposing of military property. (b) Of a value of more than $500.00 or any
firearm or explosive. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture
of all pay and allowances, and confinement for
10 years.
United States—sale, loss, damage,
destruction, or wrongful disposition. e. Maximum punishment. (1) Selling or otherwise disposing of military property. (b) Of a value of more than $500.00 or any
firearm or explosive. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture
of all pay and allowances, and confinement for
10 years.
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I think this investigation was handled horribly. These guys are obviously not working alone. This is an elaborate scheme with I'm sure more players who are probably supplying more than just them.
I would have offered them big money to see what they could come up with.
Here's the first hint that they aren't working alone. We have multiple sensitive items missing and no one is on lock down? Because its not being reported as missing. And that wouldn't be coming from some mortar.
I would have offered them big money to see what they could come up with.
Here's the first hint that they aren't working alone. We have multiple sensitive items missing and no one is on lock down? Because its not being reported as missing. And that wouldn't be coming from some mortar.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
I also thought this would have some more people involved...and was almost certain the equipment came from a deployment where, unfortunately, sometimes our accountability is not so stringent....nonetheless - it does not make this situation right
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SSG Trevor S.
"At a Starbucks near the post, Milligan touted a wide-ranging selection of silencers, including those fitting .22 caliber long rifles" Do we use .22 suppressors? Either this is black ops stuff that causes $400 toilet seats or these guys were selling commercial grade stuff that they labeled as military grade for marketing. Also who in the world would pay 10k for an M4 suppressor? That is more than the weapon is worth. I think the commander should look deeply into the investigation to find out if this is a case of overzealous marketing or actual government property theft.
Of course this may be a case of a poorly written "expose'" meant to beat out the local news.
Of course this may be a case of a poorly written "expose'" meant to beat out the local news.
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Definitely a court martial 5+ years and a BCD. These soldiers could have put the public in danger by equiping someone that wants to do harm either to a military installation or even just out in the community. Putting other people's lives in danger by selling the equipment is almost as bad as the guys using it and hurting someone.
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First, we need to get the facts of this whole mess. While a sentence in Stars and Stripes is evidence, it does not mean it is all of the evidence.
With this being said, when all the evidence is presented and if it turns out these two wee selling what was stated, the book should be thrown at them...but not until all the evidence has been presented.
With this being said, when all the evidence is presented and if it turns out these two wee selling what was stated, the book should be thrown at them...but not until all the evidence has been presented.
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As others have already stated, this has to farther reaching than 2 NCOs. Either this is the worst case of supply accountability or one of the most poorly executed FLIPLs ever conducted. Having said that, there is no excuse for what they did. They violated the trust of the American people and deserve to punished accordingly.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
it's a failure on many parts and I'd be surprised if the disposition of this case were the end of the story. Where did the equipment come from and where was the accountability?
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Although I vote for the max, I seriously doubt they will get more than 12 months jail with only serving 10. My last battalion had a similar instance. A Soldier was trying to sell something like 120 ACOG's. He sold most of them, and got caught trying to sell the last few. Even though most were recovered he wound up only having to server I believe it was 10 months, reduction to E-1, and a bad conduct discharge..
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
makes you wonder about the monthly sensitive items inventories....are they really being done by someone that really knows what the equipment is.
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1SG (Join to see)
Actually these were never on anyone's property books. They were brought back from Afghanistan and give to him from a fellow supply guy from a different unit. At least that is my understanding. I have repeatedly seen ACOGS not on anyone's property books. A big no-go in my book.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
that's why we must mentor our PLs and Commanders as the senior enlisted advisors/leaders. Almost every time, we have much more experience and we either set them up for success when we take action or failure when we don't.
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1SG (Join to see)
I agree. I was a SSG at the time of having unaccounted for ACOGS in IRAQ. As a senior now I know better.
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This kind of activity is unacceptable and as others have said these kind of sensitive items should have put the unit on lock down. I also feel there are others involved and a more detailed investigation should be done. As for these soldiers, they negatively reflect on the values of the United States Army and should take the maximum punishment for this type of crime.
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