Posted on Nov 10, 2016
PO2 Corossion Control Tech
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Posted in these groups: Leadership development Leadership Development
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SCPO Lonny Randolph
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OK, so let me preface this with the following statements; I don't know you; I don't know your Chief; I don't know much about your rate. Having said that I do have a few experiences of my own that lend a bit of light to my understanding here.
Your first question here shouldn't be "gee is this proper etiquette?". I've been LCPO of a large division a couple of times in my short 20 year career and I think I can say with frank honesty that I've found myself intensely frustrated with a young individual on more than one occasion. If I had said what you claim your Chief had said to you, you can be certain that there is a LOT of context to the conversation that has not been related in your narrative. I suspect that the statement in question was more towards the end of a very frustrating conversation or series of same rather than the first thing he/she said. Again, I don't know you, I only have what you have written to draw on, however a couple of your statements leap out at me.
First - the training, tool and divisional career counsellor programs at the divisional level - even a large division like A gang on a carrier are hardly what I would consider MAJOR programs. Important - sure - necessary - certainly, but generally these are jobs handed over to a mid level Petty Officer as collateral duty, something done when one is not doing whatever one's primary duty is and certainly not a full time job requiring a 'helper'. Maybe you do have 200 people in your division all up for re-enlistment at the same time, I sort of doubt it, but I'm not there so I could just possibly be wrong.
Second - you indicate that you spend a lot of time as a perfectionist with OCD in the performance of your duties. OCD and perfectionism when properly applied are good things, when they consume a Petty Officer's time to such a degree that they cannot carry out their other duties they are a burden. A good Petty Officer, or sailor for that matter must learn to effectively utilize their time and prioritize their tasks.
Third and most glaring from my standpoint and central to what your Chief allegedly said to you is your complete lack of comment on what supervisory and leadership roles you fulfil in your division or work center. You are a 2nd Class Petty Officer, typically you should be managing and directly supervising anywhere from 3 to 10 subordinates on a daily basis, ensuring assigned work is properly completed, seeing to the professional development of those people and looking at all times for opportunities to take on greater responsibilities and duties to advance your own career and make yourself more valuable to your chain of command. None of that is mentioned in your narrative at all.
Finally, you indicated in your write up that this is apparently not the first time this has happened to you, should you look for a transfer to some other division that will recognize your amazing skills?
So, in my admittedly uninformed opinion of your skills and abilities, lack of knowledge of your command or your Chief, I offer the following advise for what it is worth.
1) Asking for a transfer is NOT the correct response to your dilemma - it means that you have given up and are not willing to try to improve yourself.
2) The correct question is NOT is this correct etiquette - the correct question is what is it that I should be doing to make myself more valuable to my command
3) You are only as valuable to your chain of command as THEY think you are, any personal assessment you have made of your efforts is likely unfounded in reality. If you are truly the bust ass hard charger you perceive yourself to be, your chain of command would be telling you that, if they aren't you need to reassess.

Finally, what I have written here is neither meant to be insulting nor meant to cause you to feel belittled or degraded, my intention is to give you a different perspective from which to view your performance to date and address a plan of action that will make you into the sailor you want to be. Perhaps your best approach at this point is to have a private conversation with your Chief and address these points with him, my guess is that if he/she sees that you genuinely want to be a good leader and you are willing to listen and learn that your Chief is going to put out the effort to help you.

Good luck and best wishes... LR Randolph, ENCS(SW), (USN, Ret)
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PO2 Corossion Control Tech
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These are very good points and I really appreciate your point of view. I did leave a lot out of the story, mostly since I wrote this very shortly after the incident and was pretty upset. I know I need to make some changes to improve my leadership skills. I guess I was mostly taken aback. I was asking for help and was answered with the statement. It was the first time we had even discussed it, so I didn't expect him to feel frustrated at me to that point. Also, it is not the feelings of my first classes or other Chiefs, so I was really surprised. I will take all of your points to heart though, and thank you very much Senior Chief for continuing to be a teacher!
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PO2 Corossion Control Tech
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I had my Career Development Board today with our Chief. I will not beat around the bush, I just need to know if I am over reacting to the way it went down. First off, my first eval at this command was a high MP. I work very hard and I am a total OCD perfectionist type. I helped get our training and tool program on point for an inspection, and for the first time in a long time, the division had 0 hits. I also admit that my OCD hinders me. I know this, I admit it and I do know it is something I need to work on. Our Chief pulled my helper out of our division a few weeks ago. Together we managed 3 major programs for the division and we did well. We were given two days to do a turn over and I assumed full responsibility for all three programs instantly, one of which I have NO experience with. On my paperwork, and to my Chief I had stated I am overwhelmed and falling behind on all programs. The 3rd is career counselor and affects careers of my shipmates. My board started out with me voicing my concerns then it was Chief's turn. He said "I am not going to hold back. You are a shit leader." I was immediately angry. My thoughts are, I am barely keeping my head above water to keep up, I have NO one that is qualified to help, let alone trained to help and you are blaming me!? I understand where he is coming from when he says I have not trained someone to assist me, I just am not sure how I was to do this in 2 days with no one qualified even....I have a history of busting my butt for a division and finding out that my Chief feels less of me than he will tell me to my face, and I am scared that it is happening again...Was this handled correctly and I am over reacting, or do I have some valid points? A large part of me wants to request to work elsewhere since my hard work and talents are obviously not enough for my Chief....
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SPC Erich Guenther
SPC Erich Guenther
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So I am just curious here as well never having served in the Navy. I understand the importance of being frank having served in the Infantry branch long ago and such comments would be heard via barracks hallway banter. However, is it really acceptable for a NCO to call someone "a shit leader" during an evaluation? Even behind closed doors I would view that as unacceptable in the people skills department in any Military unit during an evaluation.
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PO1 Cryptologic Technician (Technical)
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Very interesting. Hopefully you didn't blow up in front of him. Did he explain the reasons he would call you a "shit leader"? There has to be something else that would cause him to call you that. #2; while I understand where both of your are coming from, he has no reason to call you that; whether you are a leader or not. That's a huge downfall on his part, making you put less respect and trust into his leadership and character. I would have asked what ways could you perform better? If he still not able to give you an answer that would constitute an real reason, I would take it up higher. I understand if Chief was wanting to put a fire under your butt but still, it could have went a different way. If there was indication that you were falling short, I would be direct with you and say "your leadership skills are slacking in some areas. Here's are some suggestions, blah blah blah."
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LTJG Communications Officer
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Would kinda need to know you better and know your Chief better. Two sides to every story. Not saying your Chief is right, but I don't know enough to say he isn't if that makes sense.
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CAPT Hiram Patterson
CAPT Hiram Patterson
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The Chief was unprofessional with his remark. I would have had a counseling session with him afterwards.
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