Posted on Oct 4, 2017
Who is currently on the P15-17 officer promotion scroll list?
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Promotions
Officer
Promotion Board
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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Hi all, the folks at NGAUS have suggested reaching out to your representatives in Congress to ask them to fix this process. If anyone is interested, I've drafted a rough template below you could edit (it's really too long) and contact your state reps. I don't know if it will help any of us on the P-17 scrolls at this point, but hopefully it will bring some attention to the issue:
Dear Sir or Ma’am,
I am writing you today to respectfully ask that you and your colleagues in Congress take up legislation and/or investigation to mend the broken process of officer promotions for Army National Guard soldiers. As it is, the citizen soldiers who lead our nation’s vital reserve component wait months and years for promotions that they have earned and have worked diligently and bravely for, often at the cost of their families and civilian employers.
Sir/Ma’am, I am bringing this issue to your attention today because I believe that many in Congress are not aware of the lengthy and demoralizing process within which we subject our Army National Guard officers in order to excel and move forward in leadership positions. As the process stands now, Army NG Officers must serve their minimum time in grade prior to submitting an application packet for promotion. Once a packet is initially submitted to an officer’s unit, the unit must then submit the packet to the State National Guard Bureau. After a matter of weeks or months dependent upon the State, the Officer is then issued promotion orders from the State, however, these orders have no official bearing on that soldier’s rank or pay. Following State promotion, the officer’s promotion packet is then sent up to the federal level for the federal recognition process. Their packet then waits for several weeks or months to become assigned to a “scroll” or group, which then moves through several different federal offices together, such as the Judge Advocate General, the Director of Military Personnel Management, the Assistant Secretary of Army, Manning, & Resources, and the Secretary of Defense, to name a few, all the while awaiting promotion approval and the issuance of promotion orders.
As this process is continuing, sir/ma’am, the leaders of the Army National Guard are often serving in leadership positions higher than their current rank, missing wages for months and years from the higher rank that they are waiting to promote to, and jeopardizing their future career trajectory as their time in grade for promotion to the next rank does begin until federal promotion orders are issued.
In my personal situation, sir/ma’am, <enter your personal promotion story>
Although this process, for myself, is frustrating and defeating, I by no means am experiencing the worst of the effects. I know colleagues who are deploying while awaiting promotion, and are serving our country in harm’s way while the bureaucracy and red tape of this process are negatively impacting the pay that these soldiers are able to send home to their families. Officers who have served proudly in the National Guard for decades are having to retire at lower ranks because they are not able to promote in time, even though they were eligible for promotion months and years prior to their retirement date.
Sir/ma’am, this list could go on and on. And, respectfully, I am writing you today because it is my firm belief that Congress is not aware of how broken this process is, or else champions of the military such as yourself would surely be on the Hill advocating on our behalf. Thank you for your service in Congress and for your efforts on behalf of everyone in our state. If you have any questions or if I can be of any assistance in shining light onto this vital matter, please do not hesitate to let me know.
Very Respectfully,
<Your Name>
You can locate your Member of Congress here: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members
Dear Sir or Ma’am,
I am writing you today to respectfully ask that you and your colleagues in Congress take up legislation and/or investigation to mend the broken process of officer promotions for Army National Guard soldiers. As it is, the citizen soldiers who lead our nation’s vital reserve component wait months and years for promotions that they have earned and have worked diligently and bravely for, often at the cost of their families and civilian employers.
Sir/Ma’am, I am bringing this issue to your attention today because I believe that many in Congress are not aware of the lengthy and demoralizing process within which we subject our Army National Guard officers in order to excel and move forward in leadership positions. As the process stands now, Army NG Officers must serve their minimum time in grade prior to submitting an application packet for promotion. Once a packet is initially submitted to an officer’s unit, the unit must then submit the packet to the State National Guard Bureau. After a matter of weeks or months dependent upon the State, the Officer is then issued promotion orders from the State, however, these orders have no official bearing on that soldier’s rank or pay. Following State promotion, the officer’s promotion packet is then sent up to the federal level for the federal recognition process. Their packet then waits for several weeks or months to become assigned to a “scroll” or group, which then moves through several different federal offices together, such as the Judge Advocate General, the Director of Military Personnel Management, the Assistant Secretary of Army, Manning, & Resources, and the Secretary of Defense, to name a few, all the while awaiting promotion approval and the issuance of promotion orders.
As this process is continuing, sir/ma’am, the leaders of the Army National Guard are often serving in leadership positions higher than their current rank, missing wages for months and years from the higher rank that they are waiting to promote to, and jeopardizing their future career trajectory as their time in grade for promotion to the next rank does begin until federal promotion orders are issued.
In my personal situation, sir/ma’am, <enter your personal promotion story>
Although this process, for myself, is frustrating and defeating, I by no means am experiencing the worst of the effects. I know colleagues who are deploying while awaiting promotion, and are serving our country in harm’s way while the bureaucracy and red tape of this process are negatively impacting the pay that these soldiers are able to send home to their families. Officers who have served proudly in the National Guard for decades are having to retire at lower ranks because they are not able to promote in time, even though they were eligible for promotion months and years prior to their retirement date.
Sir/ma’am, this list could go on and on. And, respectfully, I am writing you today because it is my firm belief that Congress is not aware of how broken this process is, or else champions of the military such as yourself would surely be on the Hill advocating on our behalf. Thank you for your service in Congress and for your efforts on behalf of everyone in our state. If you have any questions or if I can be of any assistance in shining light onto this vital matter, please do not hesitate to let me know.
Very Respectfully,
<Your Name>
You can locate your Member of Congress here: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members
Members of the United States Congress - GovTrack.us
The United States Congress is made up of 100 senators, 435 representatives, and 6 delegates to the House of Representatives.
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CPT (Join to see) - Thanks, Russell! :) Hopefully with enough attention the system will start to change.
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I am new to this process, but it has quickly affected me. I am ineligible for Call to Active duty due to the inability to complete my packet which requires the FEDREC order. I will be forwarding this to my representative as well in hopes of helping fix such a flawed system. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
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#FEDREC U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren questioned Secretary of the Army Mark T. Esper during a Senate Armed Services Committe hearing, the delays of National ...
CW2 (Join to see) - I am very sorry to hear that happened to you. Thank you for reaching out to your representatives on the behalf of yourself and all of us! I hope that you will be eligible for future opportunities. I have had some follow-up with my representatives, and have copied my reply below, in the event that it is helpful:
Thank you very much for your response! I truly appreciate your time.
I know that many of my colleagues around the country have been reaching out to their elected officials, and that legislation was introduced in the House and the Senate to address this issue going forward, through the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act, by proposing that National Guard officers' date of rank be back dated to their state promotion order date when they finally receive federal recognition. That, coupled with improvements to the antiquated promotion process (as discussed by Secretary Esper in this April committee meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVWA3oymymI&t=5s), provide me with much gratitude and hope for the process in the future. As a service member himself, I respectfully ask that the Congressman support this legislation.
My overarching concern now, though, are the service members like myself who, over this past fiscal year, experienced the worst of the effects of the broken system and currently have no recourse to remedy the negative consequences from this elongated process that has now irreparably impaired our future career trajectory. Although I was eligible for promotion in September of 2016, I did not officially begin earning time in grade for my next promotion until April 2018 when I finally received my federal recognition; over a year after my state promotion orders.
Respectfully, my suggestions for improvement would be to allow a way for those officers who have been effected by this process, but will not immediately benefit from the upcoming legislation if it passes (since it will only take effect for those promotions issued after the legislation is signed into law), to apply for a date of rank correction through the Department of the Army Board for Correction of Military Records. Two suggestions for accomplishing this may be:
1. Introduce new legislation to pair with the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act to allow all officers serving in their current rank, which took effect prior to the legislation passing and took longer than the stated timeline for federal recognition (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/workforce/documents/WO_fed_rec_board_staffing_fy17.pdf), to apply to the ABCMR for a corrected DOR at a set number of days (120-150) after their state promotion orders, WITHOUT backpay. I can see how funding would be an issue here, and I know that the biggest concern for service members is not the backpay, but the date of rank and what that means for our future promotions, service opportunities, seniority in positions, etc.
2. Another suggestion would be to allow service members to apply 10 U.S. Code §14311(2)(d) to our case to have our DORs corrected, which sets guidelines for delays in promotions due to disciplinary action. It seems reasonable to me that if there are safeguards in place to ensure the timely promotion of service members even when they are facing disciplinary actions, that surely these same safeguards should be extended to those officers experiencing these lengthy delays through no fault of our own, are in good standing with the Army, and are not pending any disciplinary action.
I have been advised that soldiers who have previously applied to have their DORs corrected through the Army Board for Correction of Military Records have been told that the Department of the Army does not have jurisdiction to change our DORs because the promotion orders for Army National Guard Officers are signed by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I am respectfully requesting that the Secretary of the Army be notified of his authority to correct DORs for Officers in this instance through 10 U.S. Code § 741(4)(a) and 10 U.S. Code §14311(2).
Thank you again, profusely for your time.
Very Respectfully,
Thank you very much for your response! I truly appreciate your time.
I know that many of my colleagues around the country have been reaching out to their elected officials, and that legislation was introduced in the House and the Senate to address this issue going forward, through the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act, by proposing that National Guard officers' date of rank be back dated to their state promotion order date when they finally receive federal recognition. That, coupled with improvements to the antiquated promotion process (as discussed by Secretary Esper in this April committee meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVWA3oymymI&t=5s), provide me with much gratitude and hope for the process in the future. As a service member himself, I respectfully ask that the Congressman support this legislation.
My overarching concern now, though, are the service members like myself who, over this past fiscal year, experienced the worst of the effects of the broken system and currently have no recourse to remedy the negative consequences from this elongated process that has now irreparably impaired our future career trajectory. Although I was eligible for promotion in September of 2016, I did not officially begin earning time in grade for my next promotion until April 2018 when I finally received my federal recognition; over a year after my state promotion orders.
Respectfully, my suggestions for improvement would be to allow a way for those officers who have been effected by this process, but will not immediately benefit from the upcoming legislation if it passes (since it will only take effect for those promotions issued after the legislation is signed into law), to apply for a date of rank correction through the Department of the Army Board for Correction of Military Records. Two suggestions for accomplishing this may be:
1. Introduce new legislation to pair with the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act to allow all officers serving in their current rank, which took effect prior to the legislation passing and took longer than the stated timeline for federal recognition (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/workforce/documents/WO_fed_rec_board_staffing_fy17.pdf), to apply to the ABCMR for a corrected DOR at a set number of days (120-150) after their state promotion orders, WITHOUT backpay. I can see how funding would be an issue here, and I know that the biggest concern for service members is not the backpay, but the date of rank and what that means for our future promotions, service opportunities, seniority in positions, etc.
2. Another suggestion would be to allow service members to apply 10 U.S. Code §14311(2)(d) to our case to have our DORs corrected, which sets guidelines for delays in promotions due to disciplinary action. It seems reasonable to me that if there are safeguards in place to ensure the timely promotion of service members even when they are facing disciplinary actions, that surely these same safeguards should be extended to those officers experiencing these lengthy delays through no fault of our own, are in good standing with the Army, and are not pending any disciplinary action.
I have been advised that soldiers who have previously applied to have their DORs corrected through the Army Board for Correction of Military Records have been told that the Department of the Army does not have jurisdiction to change our DORs because the promotion orders for Army National Guard Officers are signed by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I am respectfully requesting that the Secretary of the Army be notified of his authority to correct DORs for Officers in this instance through 10 U.S. Code § 741(4)(a) and 10 U.S. Code §14311(2).
Thank you again, profusely for your time.
Very Respectfully,
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Sir, here is a lengthy discussion we've been having for earlier scrolls that are still awaiting orders. I am on P10-17 and have found it personally helpful to track the progress of the scrolls before us. To the best of my understanding, scrolls P01-17 through P07-17 took an average of 209 days before orders were published. However, I think P08-17 and P09-17 are pushing 240 days, and P10-17 just passed 200 days. It also appears that no P scrolls have received promotions since August. Hopefully we'll all get our orders published soon...
https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/anyone-else-on-scroll-p10-17?urlhash=3184339
https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/anyone-else-on-scroll-p10-17?urlhash=3184339
Anyone else on scroll P10-17? | RallyPoint
Anyone else on scroll P10-17?
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CPT (Join to see)
Now that both P08-17 and P09-17 have published, here are some updated, approximate numbers for the P-17 scrolls for anyone interested:
Range: 175 - 283 days on scroll
Mean: 227 days
Median: 211
Mode: 201
P10-17 is at 245 days on the tracker today...hopefully this momentum will continue and we'll all get our orders soon.
Range: 175 - 283 days on scroll
Mean: 227 days
Median: 211
Mode: 201
P10-17 is at 245 days on the tracker today...hopefully this momentum will continue and we'll all get our orders soon.
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