Posted on Feb 23, 2015
Are marksmanship badges just like diamonds and are forever?
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I have seen a discussion about the wear of marksmanship badges. I might have a different perspective of this. Regulation states:
AR 600-8-22
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with which he or she qualified.
DA Pam 350-38
11-c. AC table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units with personnel assigned individual weapons will qualify semi-annually.
My take on this is if you are required to qualify every six months and have not you are not longer qualified with that weapon system. Hence, you can't deploy our do many other things with that. If you let this time lapse you are past your required time. So you would no longer be qualified. In 8-47 it states "to denote each weapon with which he or she is qualified." As I stated if I qualified with a M9 in Basic Training over 14 years ago, which I did, I am no longer qualified since I have never refired M9. But if so would you still wear it since that was reflecting your last qualification? Should it be your current, or most recent active qualification?
Do marksmanship badges last forever? Shouldn't we all be wearing our grenade qualification badge from when we qualified in basic training? Keep in mind that your qual will drop off your record after 2 years.
AR 600-8-22
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with which he or she qualified.
DA Pam 350-38
11-c. AC table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units with personnel assigned individual weapons will qualify semi-annually.
My take on this is if you are required to qualify every six months and have not you are not longer qualified with that weapon system. Hence, you can't deploy our do many other things with that. If you let this time lapse you are past your required time. So you would no longer be qualified. In 8-47 it states "to denote each weapon with which he or she is qualified." As I stated if I qualified with a M9 in Basic Training over 14 years ago, which I did, I am no longer qualified since I have never refired M9. But if so would you still wear it since that was reflecting your last qualification? Should it be your current, or most recent active qualification?
Do marksmanship badges last forever? Shouldn't we all be wearing our grenade qualification badge from when we qualified in basic training? Keep in mind that your qual will drop off your record after 2 years.
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Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 31
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Cpl (Join to see)
It's always been understood that a Marine Marksman (pizza box) is still equivalent to an Army Expert. Just sayin'!
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1LT Rosa,
Your question and your discussion post imply two different things. I think the answer to your question (are marksmanship badges permanent or must be renewed) is:
- Your reading of the regulations is correct. Marksmanship badges must be consistently re earned.
- This makes marksmanship badges different from tabs such as Ranger and Sapper which are permanent but can be revoked by competent authority if the wearer commits illegal or unethical acts.
- This makes marksmanship badges similar to the APFT badge which must be re earned semiannually.
- I believe that badges such as Air Assault and senior/master parachutist are also permanent but can be revoked in the bearer commits illegal or unethical acts. Also, in the cases of these badges, there is a difference between being qualified (passing the course/meeting the requirements) and being current (having met the requirements recently within a specified duration of time).
Your question and your discussion post imply two different things. I think the answer to your question (are marksmanship badges permanent or must be renewed) is:
- Your reading of the regulations is correct. Marksmanship badges must be consistently re earned.
- This makes marksmanship badges different from tabs such as Ranger and Sapper which are permanent but can be revoked by competent authority if the wearer commits illegal or unethical acts.
- This makes marksmanship badges similar to the APFT badge which must be re earned semiannually.
- I believe that badges such as Air Assault and senior/master parachutist are also permanent but can be revoked in the bearer commits illegal or unethical acts. Also, in the cases of these badges, there is a difference between being qualified (passing the course/meeting the requirements) and being current (having met the requirements recently within a specified duration of time).
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CPT (Join to see)
I think the question does pose a different perspective than what was said but I concur with your line of thought. If you are not current with this weapon system you no longer warrant the badge. The badge itself is not a permanent badge with orders such as Airborne or Air Assault. I would put it in the same category as the APFT badge.
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MAJ (Join to see)
The exception to this is the Distinguished Rifle and Pistol Badges that are permanent awards earned by receiving 30 pts in Excellence in Competition matches. Soldiers can either earn a 10, 8, or 6 pt leg and may only shoot 4 matches a year, to include Interservice and the Nationals at Camp Perry. They are very difficult to earn and even more rare to earn both, or to become "double distinguished"
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Well, you're an officer now, so you don't wear your marksmanship badges.... ;o)
From my understanding weapon qual badges, you only wear it as long as you're qualified for the weapon. The badge you also wear changes with your score. IIRC only driver badges are permanent.
From my understanding weapon qual badges, you only wear it as long as you're qualified for the weapon. The badge you also wear changes with your score. IIRC only driver badges are permanent.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CPT (Join to see) - There has been much discussion here on RP re the "invented tradition" of officers not wearing their marksmanship qualification badges.
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SGT Kevin Dorsey
As a Veteran I am curious about wearing qualification Badges. I understand that you wear the last level Badge you qualified for at ETS.
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MSG Thomas Currie
1SG (Join to see) - -- My understanding throughout my career -- and still consistent with the current regulation -- is that a weapons qualification badge is valid until either you achieve a different qualification score with that weapon, or you fail to qualify with that weapon (either by firing an unqualified score or by not firing when required).
Like any other order. once the order for a badge and bar has been issued, that order remains valid until superseded by a later order (of course most units neglect to issue an order invalidating qualification badges for people who bolo or simply fail to show up for qualification).
As an example, and as consistently confirmed by my chain of command, I was entitled to wear the rifle bar on my Sharpshooter Badge and the Auto-Rifle bar (along with the Pistol bar) on my Expert Badge. I qualified expert with the pistol every year. I never had occasion to fire either rifle or auto-rifle qualification after the first time. IF I had been required to qualify again I would have needed to do so or lose the badge I had previously earned. I almost did have to qualify with the rifle once late in my career while assigned to a unit where no one was assigned any weapon - by one reading of the regulation we all should have been required to qualify with the "standard service rifle" but the commander had slightly better sense and ordered everyone to qualify with the individual weapon appropriate to their MOS, which for me and my team meant the pistol. We fired with one of the units we were responsible for supporting.
Like any other order. once the order for a badge and bar has been issued, that order remains valid until superseded by a later order (of course most units neglect to issue an order invalidating qualification badges for people who bolo or simply fail to show up for qualification).
As an example, and as consistently confirmed by my chain of command, I was entitled to wear the rifle bar on my Sharpshooter Badge and the Auto-Rifle bar (along with the Pistol bar) on my Expert Badge. I qualified expert with the pistol every year. I never had occasion to fire either rifle or auto-rifle qualification after the first time. IF I had been required to qualify again I would have needed to do so or lose the badge I had previously earned. I almost did have to qualify with the rifle once late in my career while assigned to a unit where no one was assigned any weapon - by one reading of the regulation we all should have been required to qualify with the "standard service rifle" but the commander had slightly better sense and ordered everyone to qualify with the individual weapon appropriate to their MOS, which for me and my team meant the pistol. We fired with one of the units we were responsible for supporting.
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