Posted on Mar 9, 2015
What do you think about the Minimum Wage fight?
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I think this lady got it right on the head.
Military Pay
Pay Cuts
Fair Pay
Minimum Wage
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 83
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The issue isn't so much Burger-Flippers vs. the Military. It is basic economics. If you are a business owner, increasing payroll means that you either either have to raise your prices (which may price you out of competition with other similar businesses) or you have to cut hours, benefits, or even fire employees. Or the last option is to reduce your profit margin, which these days tends to be razor-thin to begin with.
What I have noticed is that a lot of the fast-food places (McDonalds especially) have gone to automated ordering and paying kiosks. Operating costs are a lot lower than paying an employee's wages, benefits, and kiosks never ask to take breaks, eat, don't report to work, have family issues, etc. So employers are seeing that automating their workforce is more cost-effective than giving a $15/hr wage + benefits.
So what these $15 minimum wage people are doing is actually legislating themselves out of a job entirely.
What I have noticed is that a lot of the fast-food places (McDonalds especially) have gone to automated ordering and paying kiosks. Operating costs are a lot lower than paying an employee's wages, benefits, and kiosks never ask to take breaks, eat, don't report to work, have family issues, etc. So employers are seeing that automating their workforce is more cost-effective than giving a $15/hr wage + benefits.
So what these $15 minimum wage people are doing is actually legislating themselves out of a job entirely.
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SFC (Join to see)
I spent the last three years living in Germany and many of the fast food restaurants over there have already moved to automated ordering in their restaurants. The fast food workers think they have trapped the corporations with these protests, but in reality they are going to force the companies to adopt more automation and cut out the small-time workers to save costs.
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If you don't want to live off minimum wage, then don't have a minimum wage job...I haven't had a minimum wage job since high school...Gain some skills and get a better job or move up in your current company. Flipping burgers isn't a career, it's a job designed for high schoolers to give them experience for the real world.
If you're 30 years old and flipping burgers for minimum wage then you need to reevaluate your choices...
If you're 30 years old and flipping burgers for minimum wage then you need to reevaluate your choices...
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Sgt Mark Ramos
But more seriously. I understand and am sympathetic to the goal of poverty relief. But there are unintended consequences of price and wage controls. There certainly is some wiggle room, but beyond a certain sweet spot you get results counter to your objective. Keep in mind that inflation occurs when wages exceed productivity. If you have the same people doing the same thing for more money then things get more expensive. Those who make the least suffer the most in that scenario.
People have already mentioned the automation threat, but there is also the threat of more productive people. Minimum wage jobs are held by people with minimum skills or minimum effort. The people who merely hold minimum skills but apply themselves move up through more effort. Those who apply minimum effort stay at minimum wage. Consider a scenario where people who normally held a $12 per hour job are home collecting unemployment. Now they can work anywhere for $15 per hour. Most likely those people have a combination of skills, experience, or drive that a long time minimum wage earner doesn't. Who do you think the employer would rather have, and who do you think will now be out a job?
When law makers start talking about minimum wage hikes it is an admission of failure. It is better to promote growth and expand opportunity. Then the people who want to move up can. And, there are opportunities for people just entering the workforce.
People have already mentioned the automation threat, but there is also the threat of more productive people. Minimum wage jobs are held by people with minimum skills or minimum effort. The people who merely hold minimum skills but apply themselves move up through more effort. Those who apply minimum effort stay at minimum wage. Consider a scenario where people who normally held a $12 per hour job are home collecting unemployment. Now they can work anywhere for $15 per hour. Most likely those people have a combination of skills, experience, or drive that a long time minimum wage earner doesn't. Who do you think the employer would rather have, and who do you think will now be out a job?
When law makers start talking about minimum wage hikes it is an admission of failure. It is better to promote growth and expand opportunity. Then the people who want to move up can. And, there are opportunities for people just entering the workforce.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
Well said, when I got out of high school there were a lot of degree holders without jobs, so I went to Vo-tec, got a mechanics education and went to work in a truck shop almost immediately after school. It's all about the making the right choice, but first one must evaluate the situation. I don't have a college degree, but I've never been hungry, without shelter and I've been able to save for retirement. Yes my hands aren't so soft, I go to work sometimes hurt or sick because I have to. I made my choices and I ended up on the working end. Yes, now I work for myself and feel great about that. I guess we all got to have a little fore sight.
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SFC (Join to see)
If you're 30 still flipping burgers I hope you're either well off to begin with and just need a hobby or you have high ambitions of working your way up corporate chain.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
SFC (Join to see) - The problem at hand is what defines a living wage and that changes more than the minimum wage ever could. If you are working at McDonalds, you should not expect a new car and new five room house as part of your 'living wage.' Ten children is not either. We need a good, reasonable definition of what a living wage is.
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It's complicated. Back in the 60's when I could have been a burger flipper I opted for KFC. Perfect job for a teenager in high school. I made a whopping $1.25 per hour. Prior to that I worked at a gas station filling up cars, washing windshields and checking oil. I started at $0.50 an hour under the table. The owner decided to start detailing cars. Yup when I wasn't pumping gas I was detailing cars. The owner got $25.00 per car and I now made $1.00 per hour.
Why do say this? Awhile back when these jobs went from teenagers to grown family members the whole demographics has changed. Now we have single parents and families working these jobs to make a living. This is driven by the economy and the availability of decent paying jobs.
Bottom line is and I've heard it said many times "why should I pay somebody $15 dollars and hour to flip burgers"? This is easy to figure out. If I bring a new person in at $15 an hour where are they supposed to go from there? Everyone rolls their eyes about burger flippers making this kind of money. I've been there and done that and must say the model is all wrong.
In the new corporate world for some reason everyone has to be number one period. For them being number one only means how profitable their company is. The corporate (Human Resources Pondits) world decided to classify jobs. The model is if you are working at a fast food restaurant you are entitled to make this much money and maybe just maybe a little more after you have been there awhile learn a do a good job. Since this has been accomplished ACCROSS the country in every job title we have all become expendable and so has companies. Company mottos are now, if you want more money you must move up in the company even though there is knowhere to go. So the company brings you in as a partimer no benefits and you are just happy to have a job. The company is rolling in money, the shareholders want more money and workers are screwed.
Everyone and everything is expendable. The new model should be: Hire a Team! Keep that that team until they retire. WHAT!!! Yes, you hire them you train them and you continue perfect your product by sharing in the profits of the company. The more money the company makes the more the employee makes. WHY???
1. Worker productivity goes through the roof.
2. It's no longer just a job, it's a career and you are part of the family.
3. Pride in the product and service.
4. Better products and superior quality.
So, when we talk about flipping burgers for $15 an hour it's not a bad thought but you have to acheive that level of the by being the best burger flipper, best customer service, best at what you do. Currently entry level jobs are filled by 5 applicants that fill out the application and drop it off. The manager hires the one that can read and write and speak in a complete sentence. That's the person who is going to make your burger? Wouldn't it be great to order a burger and know that the staff Is professional, the product is good and actually get what you ordered?
We lost the pride in our companies and most of all the pride of our work force. No one cares about either anymore. Shameful.
If you look at large companies across the board you will see that the CEO's are worth billions. That's billions with a "B"!! Folks the average person can't even spend that much money. There is a retail family in this country who just posted the family worth at $152 billion. WTF.
BRING BACK PRIDE, OWNERSHIP AND EVEEYONE WINS.
Why do say this? Awhile back when these jobs went from teenagers to grown family members the whole demographics has changed. Now we have single parents and families working these jobs to make a living. This is driven by the economy and the availability of decent paying jobs.
Bottom line is and I've heard it said many times "why should I pay somebody $15 dollars and hour to flip burgers"? This is easy to figure out. If I bring a new person in at $15 an hour where are they supposed to go from there? Everyone rolls their eyes about burger flippers making this kind of money. I've been there and done that and must say the model is all wrong.
In the new corporate world for some reason everyone has to be number one period. For them being number one only means how profitable their company is. The corporate (Human Resources Pondits) world decided to classify jobs. The model is if you are working at a fast food restaurant you are entitled to make this much money and maybe just maybe a little more after you have been there awhile learn a do a good job. Since this has been accomplished ACCROSS the country in every job title we have all become expendable and so has companies. Company mottos are now, if you want more money you must move up in the company even though there is knowhere to go. So the company brings you in as a partimer no benefits and you are just happy to have a job. The company is rolling in money, the shareholders want more money and workers are screwed.
Everyone and everything is expendable. The new model should be: Hire a Team! Keep that that team until they retire. WHAT!!! Yes, you hire them you train them and you continue perfect your product by sharing in the profits of the company. The more money the company makes the more the employee makes. WHY???
1. Worker productivity goes through the roof.
2. It's no longer just a job, it's a career and you are part of the family.
3. Pride in the product and service.
4. Better products and superior quality.
So, when we talk about flipping burgers for $15 an hour it's not a bad thought but you have to acheive that level of the by being the best burger flipper, best customer service, best at what you do. Currently entry level jobs are filled by 5 applicants that fill out the application and drop it off. The manager hires the one that can read and write and speak in a complete sentence. That's the person who is going to make your burger? Wouldn't it be great to order a burger and know that the staff Is professional, the product is good and actually get what you ordered?
We lost the pride in our companies and most of all the pride of our work force. No one cares about either anymore. Shameful.
If you look at large companies across the board you will see that the CEO's are worth billions. That's billions with a "B"!! Folks the average person can't even spend that much money. There is a retail family in this country who just posted the family worth at $152 billion. WTF.
BRING BACK PRIDE, OWNERSHIP AND EVEEYONE WINS.
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Cpl Michael Strickler
MAJ Carl Ballinger, I believe you are missing the entire point of his post. Regardless of whether or not they are multi-thousandaires or not has no real premise. The point is that there is no pride in work anymore. That is everywhere across the board.
I currently have a part time job at OfficeMax in their print center. I bust my hump every minute I am there to give the customer that walks trough the door the very best product I can. I take an extra hour or whatever it may be to ensure I have found the best graphic, cut the straightest, etc. It may be one of many jobs for me, but the finished product IS the job for them.
Pride in our nation has dwindled to who can post their breakfast the fastest. And while that is not the CEO's fault it is ours, the older generations. We are the ones that taught/allowed society to disintegrate into what it is today.
And while yes a CEO/doctor/etc should be granted a better lifestyle for the sacrifices they have mede to get where they are (and even athletes/musicians/etc) that does not mean that there are those that were not so lucky.
We have all seen those commercials about autism right. 1 in 88 (i think it is down to 1 in 68 with that hillfigure guy's). So is it really that hard to believe that if for them there is a one in a snowball's chance to achieve their fame that it could be just as hard for a average joe with the best intentions to achieve a job that he can afford to support his wife and child with?
Life is all about chance. Sure hard work and dedication come into it but if you think that a teacher does not deserve an engorged salary while she begins shaping the minds of the next generation in her classroom (while paying for supplies from her own pocket) as opposed to sending that $30 bonus to the third string out of Harvard, you sir are part of the problem.
I currently have a part time job at OfficeMax in their print center. I bust my hump every minute I am there to give the customer that walks trough the door the very best product I can. I take an extra hour or whatever it may be to ensure I have found the best graphic, cut the straightest, etc. It may be one of many jobs for me, but the finished product IS the job for them.
Pride in our nation has dwindled to who can post their breakfast the fastest. And while that is not the CEO's fault it is ours, the older generations. We are the ones that taught/allowed society to disintegrate into what it is today.
And while yes a CEO/doctor/etc should be granted a better lifestyle for the sacrifices they have mede to get where they are (and even athletes/musicians/etc) that does not mean that there are those that were not so lucky.
We have all seen those commercials about autism right. 1 in 88 (i think it is down to 1 in 68 with that hillfigure guy's). So is it really that hard to believe that if for them there is a one in a snowball's chance to achieve their fame that it could be just as hard for a average joe with the best intentions to achieve a job that he can afford to support his wife and child with?
Life is all about chance. Sure hard work and dedication come into it but if you think that a teacher does not deserve an engorged salary while she begins shaping the minds of the next generation in her classroom (while paying for supplies from her own pocket) as opposed to sending that $30 bonus to the third string out of Harvard, you sir are part of the problem.
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Cpl Michael Strickler
MAJ Carl Ballinger, I believe it does. Though it may be a topic centered on minimum wage it is that way because the balance of class is extremely unbalanced and getting worse. While I personally have never had an issue getting a job, I know a few that struggle everyday. Great Marines, great people, but they can not catch that lucky break. You can call it God or chance or karma, whatever, but in the end the reason we have legislation is to help fix societies faults.
When God has missed helping out a minimum wage earner that has a wife and a child with some medical condition and they are drowning in debt WE are supposed to step in and correct that oversight. So long as you are in a position that enables you to survive comfortably we are all ok with saying how great the system is as is, but God forbid you find yourself in some unlucky scenario that leaves you unable to provide for your family and no matter how hard you try you can not get back.
I see SFC Walt Littleton's main point as this. You should work and have pride in what you do, doing the best you can each day. And regardless of whether you flip burgers, carry a badge, dunk a basketball you should be able to support your family without worrying about what the future holds.
That is the main concern the majority have with minimum wage.
When God has missed helping out a minimum wage earner that has a wife and a child with some medical condition and they are drowning in debt WE are supposed to step in and correct that oversight. So long as you are in a position that enables you to survive comfortably we are all ok with saying how great the system is as is, but God forbid you find yourself in some unlucky scenario that leaves you unable to provide for your family and no matter how hard you try you can not get back.
I see SFC Walt Littleton's main point as this. You should work and have pride in what you do, doing the best you can each day. And regardless of whether you flip burgers, carry a badge, dunk a basketball you should be able to support your family without worrying about what the future holds.
That is the main concern the majority have with minimum wage.
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