Posted on Apr 15, 2015
Capt Jeff S.
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Yesterday, I was driving in Myrtle Beach, SC and saw a Myrtle Beach Police Department (MBPD) MRAP all decked out with police hardware. I found it amusing but troubling at the same time. I mean seriously? I didn't flip it off, but seeing it left me with more questions than answers:

1. Why does the Myrtle Beach Police Dept (MBPD) need a mine resistant vehicle?
2. While it may have been given free as part of a gov't surplus program aimed at protecting our police officers, were any strings attached?
3. Should these vehicles have been given to the National Guard rather than the local police forces?
4. In the long run, are we not fiscally better off using squadcars and motorcycles and calling in the National Guard to work with the police when the situation warrants?
5. Does this militarization of local law enforcement cause the police to power trip and react differently, and treat the public as the enemy?

What are your thoughts on this?
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Responses: 44
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Edited 9 y ago
Sir,
I'll try to address some of this:

1. Why does the Myrtle Beach Police Dept (MBPD) need a mine resistant vehicle?

They don't, however, the FEDERAL government gives them these items at such a good deal, they would be stupid not to take them. When you can buy them for pennies on the dollar, AND get REAL (like actual Law Enforcement) training for free to go with it, it becomes a no brainer. You take the gear to get the other stuff. You take the "package deal" to get 2-3 things you really want, and end up with a bunch of other stuff. That doesn't mean you won't use what you have though.

2. While it may have been given free as part of a gov't surplus program aimed at protecting our police officers, were any strings attached?

Absolutely. See above. But as Robert Heinlein said "TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." Taking the gear obligates you to assist Federal agencies when Federal investigations happen in your "yard."

3. Should these vehicles have been given to the National Guard rather than the local police forces?

Yes & no. The idea is to get them off "Federal" books. If they are on Federal books, they are one "color of money," but if they are State/Local, they are another "color of money" which means they don't have the same oversight. It's a political trick. A good one.

4. In the long run, are we not fiscally better off using squadcars and motorcycles and calling in the National Guard to work with the police when the situation warrants?

Absolutely, but... this is an "accounting trick." It's like mothballing equipment instead of destroying it. If you destroy it, it's gone. If you mothball it, you have to account for it on your ledgers. But if you "sell it" to the state/local governments, it becomes their problem. Now what happens is, they use their budget to buy $1M of equipment for $100k and get lots of free training. Sure they could buy $100k worth of squadcars.. but what would you do, if you were an accountant?

5. Does this militarization of local law enforcement cause the police to power trip and react differently, and treat the public as the enemy?

Yes. I'd love to give a more in-depth answer, but it does. If you carry a .38 with 5 rounds, you react differently than if you carry a 9mm with 17+1, or if you carry a M16 with 30rd. The more firepower you have, the more you are WILLING to escalate, because the more you are ABLE to escalate.
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COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - Sergeant; I think that it is available on line as a PDF - but I'm not sure.
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1SG Corrections Officer
1SG (Join to see)
9 y
Do patrol cars stop bullets? No. If someone was taken hostage or a suspect is barricaded, how do the police respond and protect themselves. Its called an armored vehicle. Enough said
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
>1 y
GySgt Michael Lange Did you actually read the original question or my response to it? No where did I imply my condoning of the process. All I did was explain it.

Nor did I say the government owned it. I said the government controlled it. Worlds of difference. And the process which the DoD is selling them through is akin to the DRMO process. Just another program name.

Your comments regarding 9/11 etc are a distraction to the issue above.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
1SG (Join to see), to answer your question to Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS, as a matter of fact patrol cars can be ordered with an option to stop bullets:
http://www.ford.com/fordpoliceinterceptor/features/#/officerprotection/officerprotection_02/
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SSG Buddy Kemper
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Edited 9 y ago
Mixed emotions on this one, boss. I've been a cop for a long long time, but was a combat vet first. As a vet I would never flip off a cop, and believe me I've seen some cops act like horses a$$'s. But I guess it's all perspective. One retard cop screws up a lot for hundreds if not thousands of good cops. With my army pension& disability I could just sit on my butt and not worry about what is going on in my community or my state or my country, but I'd probably be dead in two years. I feel like my dad now when I'm counseling young rookie type cops. I usually fall back on my old line that if ya want to make it in this business you better figure out quick that we can help people. Kids get molested daily. Women get beaten sometimes murdered daily. Old people are abused daily. Patrol and detective work are not Dirty Harry or CHIPS. Policing is like a combat tour in some ways...days and days of boredom for a few moments of terror and a split second to hopefully save a life and not be killed in the process.

I've only used my duty weapon twice in all theses years, and I'm proud of that fact. I'm usually the guy with an arm around a kid or helping a lady change a tire on a roadside. I've only lost one partner in all these years and i still miss him. I wish I had been in a different position that day and closer to where he was. In a way I think the police would be militarized/"martial law" deployed much less likely as the 82nd Airborne or the 101st (my old outfit). Not that those wonderful Officers and NCOs would participate in such colossal illegality, I'm just saying that their training and standards are high enough to actually make it work, if they were inclined.

And if I ever got an order to go house to house to take guns from my people like dad or granddad here with my fellow Tennesseans, I'd quit this job. Probably slap whoever gave me so illegal/unconstitutional an order in the mouth. Might get in a jam myself, but I've tried to stand for the right my whole adult life. Not gonna stop now. I've met so many wonderful law men and gals thru the years, that I feel these sentiments are in the majority of all career law officers. Certainly don't want to ruffle any feathers of folk with differing views, but trust you enough Capt Jeff S. to tell you the truth.

As always, thanks for your leadershp and your example. Thank you for discussing something that is probably on a lots of hearts lately. Blessings to you and family and all vets.
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1SG David Lopez
1SG David Lopez
9 y
Very well said, I concur completely, Hoo-Ah!
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
9 y
Thanks for your candor and heart felt response SSG Buddy Kemper. It warms my heart to know there are still law enforcement officers out there with your good judgment and proper perspective.
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SSG Buddy Kemper
SSG Buddy Kemper
9 y
The APC seems kind of extreme to me, too, Sir. I was a SWAT guy for several years and I want our team to have good equipment. We basically had an old bread truck that we painted. Then moved up to an ambulance that we painted black. We really struggle for funds at my department. I hate to say it, but I think there is a serious lack of support from many law makers at our local level. We are kind of bleeding to death, to tell the truth because we get great guys/gals out of the Academy and they work for 2 or 3 years then go to the city/state or Fed& make tens of thousands more a year. I don't want to sound like a crybaby on here. I'm thankful to have a job....and I hope no one entered law enforcement thinking they'd get rich. But it's frustrating to me to lose our best young guys and old farts like me have to stick around and try to raise up the new folks that keep coming to us. I'm considering a change to factory work because I'll double my income. One of my favorite company commanders told me one time that leadership is love. You have to love the guys you lead for it to work. Same with law enforcement. If we don't love people and help them we're just wasted space. Just out of the Army in mid-90s I was in it for car chases and fights. The excitement. I'm older now and I just want people to get along and be good to each other. I dread the domestic violence calls and the child molesters. I DREAD all of that stuff. But abused women and kids are the ones who need a good cop the most. Again, interesting responses on here and a good discussion. Sounds like that department has very very deep pockets unless they got some type of grant. Lord knows I'd hate to be driving an APC around my home town. Best wishes to you and thanks again for your leadership. Thanks for letting me vent a little, too. It's frustrating sometimes.
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SFC Mark Merino
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Edited 9 y ago
Apparently, I have the constitutional right to flip off cops. That is just spiffy, but I would never do that in a million years. I guess had a surplus of a brazillion MRAP's and other up armored toys that we brought back from Iraqistan. Instead of putting them next to my beloved OH-58D in the open desert's boneyard, we sold them to state government agencies for $1. If a cop in getting fired at by a threat that warrants it, by all means use your new toy as you deem necessary to ensure that our protectors are protected. No matter what force is applied, cops shall be held to the highest levels of scrutiny and be accountable for their actions. Was the "tank" patrolling the neighborhood or en route to somewhere? If they are using it to patrol, that is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If it was in a well known drug area, where shootouts are a daily occurrence, have that bad boy cued up and ready to go! Some neighborhoods are armed to the teeth. In Philly, during the 80's, there were neighborhoods so dangerous that the cops just waited for cars to leave the area and then search for drugs. AK's "choppers" were on the street and a dime a dozen; cops had shotguns. I wish they had 100 of these "tanks" and went to town!
So keep flipping off those cops, America. Show us what you are made of. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. It is also your constitutional right to yell at and spit on the lions when the cage door unlocked. It is also your constitutional right to burn the American flag in front of a bunch of drunk service members who just redeployed and are at the bar toasting their fallen buddies. Good luck with all of that, and God bless America.
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