Posted on Apr 3, 2014

670-1 violations punitive. What about not enforcing them, should that be punitive?

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What I mean is if we are going to hand out article 15's for uniform violations, is it not a bigger deal to not enforce the standards? The fact that the standards havent been enforced are the reasons for many of these changes. That is a deriliction of duty in my opinion.

So the question is should Soldier's receive UCMJ for failing to make corrections.

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DA Pam 670-1

Posted >1 y ago

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Soldier's should receive UCMJ for failing to make corrections/enforce standards.

Only NCO's/Officer's should be subject to the UCMJ for failing to make corrections.

They should be but would be nearly impossible to prove.

Soldier's should not be held accountable for failing to make corrections/enforce standards.

Uniform violations shouldn't be punishable by UCMJ in the first place.

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Responses: 3

SSG Oliver Mathews

Posted >1 y ago

The problem with all of these questions about AR 670-1 being punitive or if not enforcing the standards should be punitive... ITS ALWAYS BEEN PUNISHABLE...

Article 92 of the UCMJ Failure to Obey Order or Regulation. This Article makes ALL of AR670-1 and every other Regulation published by any and all branches within the DOD Punitive.

Failure to Adhere to, Follow, or maintain any part of the Regulation to include the portions that do not state "Punitive" in the first Paragraph, are still Punitive.

Why is the Army adding on to what once was? maybe to have more options, who knows.

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SSG Anthony Schoepp

Posted >1 y ago

There would be almost no way to prove they saw the infraction, or that they did not require the correction to be made. If I stop someone because their sewn on rank is crooked and tell them to fix it, nothing says that they have to do that. Then am I still liable because I did not cut off and resew the rank in that moment? Kind of extreme but that would be one 'grey area' example.

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SFC Michael Hasbun

Posted >1 y ago

It'd be kind of hard to prove that they actually saw the infraction... Definitely a case by case thing..

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1SG (Join to see)

>1 y

I think you are missing the point though. So here is a scenario:

You conduct PT and release the Soldiers for chow and personal hygeine. Formation at 0900 hours in the motor pool. Soldier is on his way to formation (squad leader obviously has not seen him yet) and he has an ear ring in his left ear. A random SFC passes the Soldier on the Soldiers right side and a CSM a few feet after that SFC sees it because he passed the Soldier on the Soldiers left side. The Soldier did not have it in during PT though.

What is your recommended course of action? Article 15 for Soldier and squad leader? Article 15 for Soldier and the SFC?

The point we are trying to make (at least me) is that you have to know that the leader saw the problem before you can hold them accountable.

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SFC Michael Hasbun

>1 y

Exactly. You can't correct a defeciency you never saw. Unless the regulation mandates that we stare down and evaluate everyone we come across in our day to day lives, this is too circumstantial...

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SSG Robert Burns

>1 y

Im saying if it is obvious that someone had the opportunity to make the correction and failed to do so. I.e. after formation where it's the responsibilities of the squad leaders to check their guys. Of I have a female working on my floor all day with an unauthorized hairstyle. As the NCOIC of that floor I'm responsible for everyone. It would be foolish to say I didn't notice her hair all day. So on and so forth.

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SFC Michael Hasbun

>1 y

I dunno brother... I think it's a bit too much of a subjective grey area...

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670-1 violations punitive. What about not enforcing them, should that be punitive?

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