Posted on Dec 8, 2021
Since my court martial was downgraded to a FG Art 15, will the charge be different?
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I have been under investigation for 10 months. 1SG said they don’t have enough and can’t pursue a CM. My first reading is next week with the LTC.
Questions:
Will the charge be different compared to previous CM??
If I demand CM will it go through because of what my 1SGs said?
Questions:
Will the charge be different compared to previous CM??
If I demand CM will it go through because of what my 1SGs said?
Posted in these groups: 
UCMJ
Court Martial
UCMJ Court Martial
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Don't sign it. Your 1SG (STOMP! STOMP!) is giving you a hint.
However go see a JAG Officer now.
However go see a JAG Officer now.
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Ok, first point.... RUN, don't walk to your nearest Area Defense Counsel (or Army equivalent) office! Speak to NO ONE about the charges until and unless a qualified legal representative tells you to. Better yet, find and retain a qualified civilian attorney who is versed and experienced in military law. There's usually several around most military installations. It will cost you money but the civilian attorney is more likely to vigorously defend you against whatever charges are brought.
Second point...If your 1SG is saying they don't have enough for a Court Martial, then s/he is likely telling you there isn't much evidence for legal action (including A15). See point one above....
Third... Sign NOTHING without legal representation present. Just because the Commander wants to proceed with A15 action and not a full blown Courts Martial does NOT mean you are not entitled to legal representation. As SFC Casey O'Mally stated earlier, A15 actions are still legal hearings and the same rules for representation apply.
Second point...If your 1SG is saying they don't have enough for a Court Martial, then s/he is likely telling you there isn't much evidence for legal action (including A15). See point one above....
Third... Sign NOTHING without legal representation present. Just because the Commander wants to proceed with A15 action and not a full blown Courts Martial does NOT mean you are not entitled to legal representation. As SFC Casey O'Mally stated earlier, A15 actions are still legal hearings and the same rules for representation apply.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
You aren't entitled to free military counsel at an Article 15 hearing nor a Summary Court martial. Trial Services will assist you in preparing your case, but if you want a lawyer to represent you, it comes out of your pocket.
Technically Article 15 is an Administrative Action and not a Legal one. You can have multiple Article 15's and it will not show up after you leave the Service. You are convicted during a CM, it's a permanent mark on the record.
Technically Article 15 is an Administrative Action and not a Legal one. You can have multiple Article 15's and it will not show up after you leave the Service. You are convicted during a CM, it's a permanent mark on the record.
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
CPT Lawrence Cable - Maybe the Army does things a little different. I'll be guided by your advice on this one. All I have to relate to is the two troops I had that faced A15 both had ADC representation during the proceedings. True, the attorney wasn't present during the actual hearing but the member was still afforded an opportunity to consult with them before any action was taken.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P - That's the same procedure as in the Army. You can/should consult with Trial Services before making any decision, but they are not at the actual hearing.
Article 15 is Administrative across the services. The big difference is how they handle the soldier, marine, airman, or sailor afterwards. My understanding that any Article 15 is a career killer in the Air Force, it isn't in the Army or Navy. Or at least isn't for lower ranking soldiers. If you are E-4 or under in the Army, any Article 15 is kept in your local file
and the records goes away after two years, or when you PCS.
Article 15 is Administrative across the services. The big difference is how they handle the soldier, marine, airman, or sailor afterwards. My understanding that any Article 15 is a career killer in the Air Force, it isn't in the Army or Navy. Or at least isn't for lower ranking soldiers. If you are E-4 or under in the Army, any Article 15 is kept in your local file
and the records goes away after two years, or when you PCS.
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OK, I have three pieces of advice here.
First, If they do not have enough for a court martial, then it would seem that forcing a Court Martial is the way to go. DON'T DO IT. Because they can throw on any and all lesser charges to get SOMETHING to stick and you are stuck with a federal conviction - likely a federal felony - on your record for life. If you are charged with murder because you went out after curfew and shot a guy, but they can't prove you actually shot the guy, you will still end up going down for violating curfew.
But that is less important than point 2....
Second, you know whether or not you did whatever you are accused of. If you did it, take your punishment. If you did not, fight with every fiber of your being.
And that is less important than point 3....
Talk to JAG now! Your 1SG's admission that they do not have enough for a CM *should* be enough to not only beat a CM but ALSO beat a FG A15. Remember that even A15s are hearings. Commander sits as judge and jury, but you are still allowed to defend yourself, and still entitled to the aid of counsel. No matter what we tell you - myself included - the Trial Defense lawyer will have better - and more accurate advice.
First, If they do not have enough for a court martial, then it would seem that forcing a Court Martial is the way to go. DON'T DO IT. Because they can throw on any and all lesser charges to get SOMETHING to stick and you are stuck with a federal conviction - likely a federal felony - on your record for life. If you are charged with murder because you went out after curfew and shot a guy, but they can't prove you actually shot the guy, you will still end up going down for violating curfew.
But that is less important than point 2....
Second, you know whether or not you did whatever you are accused of. If you did it, take your punishment. If you did not, fight with every fiber of your being.
And that is less important than point 3....
Talk to JAG now! Your 1SG's admission that they do not have enough for a CM *should* be enough to not only beat a CM but ALSO beat a FG A15. Remember that even A15s are hearings. Commander sits as judge and jury, but you are still allowed to defend yourself, and still entitled to the aid of counsel. No matter what we tell you - myself included - the Trial Defense lawyer will have better - and more accurate advice.
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