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President Obama declared that the US would not wage war on a tactic. But was the war on terror ever a war against a tactic? As we adjust our response shouldn't we adjust our view of what the problem really is? Can't we see how a narrow focus has blinded us to developing threats? By focusing solely on al-Qaeda didn't we miss the rise of IS? Al-Qaeda never was the tight-knit group that many would have us believe. KSM wasn't part of al-Qaeda when he bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. Aren't 4 Marines just as dead whether the shooter was a "lone wolf" or a card carrying member of any one of the dozens of Islamic terrorist groups? Isn't it their ideology that motivated him, not a membership card? If the ideology is the cancer and shootings like the one from yesterday are the symptoms. Shouldn't we target the ideology as well as treat (prevent) the attacks.
War on Terror
Terrorism
Chattanooga
Active Shooter
Politics
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 15
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Sgt Mark Ramos I really like your train of thought on this subject. I totally agree that the issue is bigger than just one terrorist cell; it is a worldwide epidemic that we and other countries should be fighting together in an offensive mode (versus the wait and see mode) that I feel we are in right now. I personally Liked the strategy of "War on Terror" and I think the coalition should have been held together for the right reasons and we should still be using all of our national power to defeat this epidemic waive of terrorist ideology, otherwise they will continue to recruit and continue to grow. I still firmly believe that there are plans that have been in the work for sometime on the next horrific act of terrorism yet to reach the United States or some of our allies. Proactive versus reactive. Again this just an opinion!
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SSG William Patton
Col, I find it strange that I do not hear too much said against groups like ISIS from the so called devout Muslims. The Koran has several verses that tell followers to kill all infidels and that has not changed in 1400 years. Where are these highways?
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
SSG William Patton - Without getting into a lengthy discussion, the reason you are not hearing anything from mainstream Muslims is either because you are not listening, or simply because such things rarely get air-play! The Colonel was spot on in his answer and it is illogical to label an entire religion, based on the action of some extremists. When, for example, the events of 9/11 took place, people in Iran took to the streets to protest against the terrorists and in support of the US (!) Can you imagine that?! Yet, I bet this is the first time you are hearing about this. On the other hand, when Donald Trump falsely claimed that he could see people (presumably Muslims) rejoicing in New Jersey, this was plastered across the nation.
As for the wording of "several verses" in Quran, do you honestly think that such things do not exist in the Bible, the Torah, or a myriad of other religious books?! I am a natural born US citizen, yet I grew up in Turkey and at no time did I ever hear anyone seriously advocate that Islam was engaged in a war with Christianity. In fact, if you study the history of the Ottoman Empire, you would see that while wars did occur, they were for economic and other reasons. Religion was simply a convenient tool to be utilized and by both the Muslims and the Christians. The same Ottoman Empire was also the United States of its day, with many different nationalities and religions COEXISTING in one empire. When Christians in Europe were burning Jews if they refused to convert to Christianity (think the Spanish Inquisition,) it was the Ottoman Turks and the Arabs that welcomed the threatened Jews, giving them refuge. The Jews and Christians of the Ottoman Empire were given the choice to practice either the Ottoman code of justice, or their own codes, in line with their own faiths.
I think if you were to get to know some Muslims, you would see that they want similar things in life and they abhor terrorism and terrorists just as much as you do. I hope this helps.
As for the wording of "several verses" in Quran, do you honestly think that such things do not exist in the Bible, the Torah, or a myriad of other religious books?! I am a natural born US citizen, yet I grew up in Turkey and at no time did I ever hear anyone seriously advocate that Islam was engaged in a war with Christianity. In fact, if you study the history of the Ottoman Empire, you would see that while wars did occur, they were for economic and other reasons. Religion was simply a convenient tool to be utilized and by both the Muslims and the Christians. The same Ottoman Empire was also the United States of its day, with many different nationalities and religions COEXISTING in one empire. When Christians in Europe were burning Jews if they refused to convert to Christianity (think the Spanish Inquisition,) it was the Ottoman Turks and the Arabs that welcomed the threatened Jews, giving them refuge. The Jews and Christians of the Ottoman Empire were given the choice to practice either the Ottoman code of justice, or their own codes, in line with their own faiths.
I think if you were to get to know some Muslims, you would see that they want similar things in life and they abhor terrorism and terrorists just as much as you do. I hope this helps.
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CW4 Craig Urban
We need some type of national service. Not a draft but we let the individual pick. 6 months minimum.
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GWOT was never over... That statement should be received and attacked by the media, just like George Bush's victory comment about Iraq on the Aircraft Carrier after the fall of Baghdad. We need go get serious about this, and aggressive. We are at war, have been at war, and the enemy will not stop because the president says the war is over; It is not. Unless we plan on withdrawing every US asset to CONUS... we can plan on this going on for a long time. Even doing that, isolationism, does not guarantee a thing. We also need to stop being so PC, and start having a honest discussion about what the threat(s) are - what is most likely, and most dangerous, and focus there. Finally, when attacks occur on our interests, we need to react rapidly, violently, and potently. Eventually, the enemy will realize we are in fact serious, and in it to win it. If it is, in fact, our intent to actually win? Wait, the war is over, so I guess we won?
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Sgt Mark Ramos
COL Charles Williams, I agree that it does no good for the media to excuse statements from our leaders that have no merit. I think the whole mission accomplished banner has been way overblown for political reason. Every war has multiple missions. A significant mission was accomplished and there was no harm in the CINC commending his troops but reminding them that there was more work ahead. But that is another topic.
I agree that the war was, and still is, not over. But the overall strategy was changed dramatically to make it seem like we were going from the small and unfocused (a tactic) to the big but focused (eliminating perpetrators). The diversion occurred by pretending that only a close-knit group was at war with us. We then could not see the forest for the trees.
We need a swift, focused military strategy as you say. But, we also need the "people people" to do their thing. A concurrent and well orchestrated educational, economic development, and political guidance war.
I agree that the war was, and still is, not over. But the overall strategy was changed dramatically to make it seem like we were going from the small and unfocused (a tactic) to the big but focused (eliminating perpetrators). The diversion occurred by pretending that only a close-knit group was at war with us. We then could not see the forest for the trees.
We need a swift, focused military strategy as you say. But, we also need the "people people" to do their thing. A concurrent and well orchestrated educational, economic development, and political guidance war.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
COL Charles Williams right on Sir. IMO POTUS and/or his great advisers didn't like the term GWOT.
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PO1 Brian Schletty
COL, I believe you are on target; many folks younger than 70 seem to not understand where isolationism got us in 1941...
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COL Ted Mc
COL Charles Williams - Colonel; If you heard Mullah Omar's latest statement, the "Jihad" will continue until the "foreign troops" leave Afghanistan.
Admittedly that isn't quite the same thing as saying that the "Jihad" will STOP once the "foreign troops" leave Afghanistan - but it's pretty darn close. In fact it's close enough that it can be said without being accused of DIRECTLY blackmailing the countries that those "foreign troops" come from - which means that a "diplomatic accord" can be reached.
PS - Once the Taliban and the Afghan government reach an accord on who gets out of the country and with how much money, you can expect that the "Afghan National Unity Government" will tell those "foreign troops" to go home.
Admittedly that isn't quite the same thing as saying that the "Jihad" will STOP once the "foreign troops" leave Afghanistan - but it's pretty darn close. In fact it's close enough that it can be said without being accused of DIRECTLY blackmailing the countries that those "foreign troops" come from - which means that a "diplomatic accord" can be reached.
PS - Once the Taliban and the Afghan government reach an accord on who gets out of the country and with how much money, you can expect that the "Afghan National Unity Government" will tell those "foreign troops" to go home.
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Mark Ramos - Sergeant; I'm in a bit of a rush this morning, so I'll just point out two minor errors in your post.
[1] Islam does not accept coerced conversion - Christianity does.
The fact that "historically" forced 'conversion' to Christianity was frequently followed by execution in order to "save the soul" of the "converted" from the "sin" of "backsliding" is totally irrelevant - right.
[2] The "basis of Islam" is not violence.
However the fact that the reaction of the "Arab Powers That Were" to Mohamed were rather different than the reaction of the "Judeo-Roman Powers that Were" to Jesus (the Arabs declared war on Mohamed and all his followers simply because of their beliefs in a monotheistic religion whereas the Judeo-Romans merely laughed at Jesus) just might have something to do with the fact that early Islam was rather violent (given that the choice was "violent" or "dead").
[1] Islam does not accept coerced conversion - Christianity does.
The fact that "historically" forced 'conversion' to Christianity was frequently followed by execution in order to "save the soul" of the "converted" from the "sin" of "backsliding" is totally irrelevant - right.
[2] The "basis of Islam" is not violence.
However the fact that the reaction of the "Arab Powers That Were" to Mohamed were rather different than the reaction of the "Judeo-Roman Powers that Were" to Jesus (the Arabs declared war on Mohamed and all his followers simply because of their beliefs in a monotheistic religion whereas the Judeo-Romans merely laughed at Jesus) just might have something to do with the fact that early Islam was rather violent (given that the choice was "violent" or "dead").
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Sgt Mark Ramos
COL Ted Mc, Your understanding of Islamic history is incomplete. I highly recommend this book.
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/history/middle-east-history/history-islamic-societies-2nd-edition
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/history/middle-east-history/history-islamic-societies-2nd-edition
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Mark Ramos - Sergeant; Thanks for the reference.
It will, however, take me a few minutes (or so) to work through all (roughly) 1,000 pages so that I can come up with a summary more rational than "Islam isn't Christianity so therefore all Muslims are evil and we should kill them all.".
It will, however, take me a few minutes (or so) to work through all (roughly) 1,000 pages so that I can come up with a summary more rational than "Islam isn't Christianity so therefore all Muslims are evil and we should kill them all.".
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Sgt Mark Ramos
COL Ted Mc, That is not my position at all. If you read me other comments in within this post you'll see that.
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